Derby D-10: can't get 1st string raise!

[Christopher Robison]

Does anyone else have a Derby Steel with a 1st string raise on either RKL or LKV? I can (almost) get the guitar to pull the 1st string to a G but, no matter what settings I use, I cannot get it to go to G#. I really want this change and it seems so weird that it won't pull. I used to have the change on my first pedal (I.E. Tommy white) but really want it on a knee lever. Any notes from Derby players (or anyone) would be helpful.

[Richard Sinkler]

Have you tried increasing the travel of the lever?

Also, placing the pull rod in a different bellcrank hole or different changer hole might give you the raise without changing the lever travel.

[Colton Stokley]

Do you have split tuning screws at the changer? Have you tried backing it all the way off at that string?

That was the problem i had once on my 5th string

[Marvin Born]

Can you post a picture of the end of the guitar showing the position of the nylon tuners for string one.
post a second picture of the bell crank for the pull on string one. I suspect as others have said, you need to either move the pull rod one or two holes away from the cross rod on the bell crank or move to hole three of the changer finger. (hole three will be the raise finger hole closest to the floor (with the guitar standing up) or closest to the lower finger.

A quick test:
Tune the string to correct pitch, with the electronic tuner ON, use a philips screwdriver and press in on the raise finger in the open hole closest the floor while you pick the string. This will tell you if the changer will go to G#. If it does then you have to change the rod on bell crank or move to a lower hole on the finger. I suspect the bell crank will fix it. But you may have to do both.

If the changer does not go to G# you have to determine why. Is there something in there, etc. Or you have the wrong string size. One size larger will reach pitch faster with less travel.

[Christopher Robison]

Thanks for all the input. Update: I have managed to get the 1st string to pull to G# by increasing the travel of the lever but it's not ideal. The level now moves so far to the left that it feels ridiculous. In fact, it travels so far that I need to rerod my back neck changes because there is now too much travel. Maybe I'll just get used to it. I pushed the changer finger with a screwdriver like suggested and it seems like it will pull to an "A" when fully engaged. The string gauge is .012 which, I thought, is the recommended gauge to pull the 1st string to G#. The split screw is backed off. I have included photos of the changer finger/tuning nut and the bell crank connection (guitar upside down) which shows that the rod is through the 1st hole on the changer finger and through the 4th hole on the bell crank. Maximum leverage. Maybe it's the nature of the beast?

[Christopher Robison]

not sure why the pictures rotated, but hopefully they still make sense

[Donny Hinson]

Does the lowering finger move when you do the raise?

This must NEVER happen!

[Wayne Brown]

I guess you have your answer

[Jerry Overstreet]

That all looks right. I can tell from the pic it's in the top hole as the 2 hole lower scissors are opposite.

I'll have to give this some thought. When I had my D10 Derby, I had this change on RKL along with raising string 2 a half tone and 6 lower a whole.
My recollection is that it was sort of stiff, but not excessive travel. I can see how it might be longer travel on a right moving reversing lever though.

I asked Charlie Stepp about this change and he said the guitar would accommodate it easily having done it many times for customers without any feedback concerning travel.

[Tucker Jackson]

It's no fun posting a correction here, but since AI bots are scooping all this up and presenting it as "fact" we need to clear up a misconception stated earlier by a few folks.

Where to attach each end of the pull rod to get maximum "change in pitch" out of the pull train:

* Bellcrank: the slot away from the fulcrum (furthest away from the crossbar)

* Changer: the hole closest to the fulcrum (closest to the top deck of the guitar)

This second one is counterintuitive, especially if we think of the problem as "needing more leverage." But really, it's two different types of math problems, one for the knee lever end of things, and an almost opposite one at the changer end.

Take a look at these graphics. They were designed to show how to rod things to change length-of-throw and playing ease. That's not what we're looking at here, which is trying to achieve maximum change in pitch out of the pull train. But these are related issues, and the same principle is in play where the rules are opposite at the changer than they are at the bellcrank.

To get maximum pitch change, we would also be looking for what these graphics display as "short and stiff." A short change means every unit of knee lever travel translates to really changing the pitch a lot. Setting up that kind of leverage for a "short and stiff" playing action also gives us the opportunity to get the most amount of pitch-change out of a pull train.

NOTE THAT THESE GRAPHICS DEPICT THE GUITAR ORIENTED UPSIDE DOWN, AS YOU WOULD VIEW IT WHILE ON THE WORK BENCH
.
Bellcrank (or Pull Bar):

SteelActionChartPullbarGuitarUpsidedown.jpg

.
Changer:

SteelAction-Changer-Guitar-Upsidedown.jpg

Here's how to think about that changer end, where it seems counterintiutive that you would attach close to the fulcrum to get maxium movement of the finger: We're not looking for maxiumum leverage per se... we're looking for maximum movement of the finger. You're presenting the changer with a pull rod that's pulling a fixed amount, say, one inch. Where do you attach to get the finger (lever) to move the most?

Think of a see-saw. One end is on the ground -- and we'll just concentrate on the mechanics of that half of the see-saw, along with the fulcrum. This is the model for a changer.

You are going to tie a rope (the pullrod) somewhere and pull that rope up a fixed amount, say, one foot. Your goal is to achieve the maxiumum movement of that lever off of the ground. Where, exactly, is the best place along the length of board to tie the rope?

You can tie it to the end of the board, furthest away from the fulcrum. Imagine what that would look like after pulling upward by one foot. Lots of leverage, maybe, and easy to pull, but not much overall movement of the board, and not even lifted enough to be parallel with the ground.

But if you were to tie the rope up near the midpoint of the see-saw, near the fulcrum, and pulled upward by 1 foot, imagine how much higher you would have moved that see-saw. Sure, it would be harder to pull it up ("stiff," even), but the end that had been on the ground would now be pointing toward the sky. Maximum movement of that lever by positioning the pull near the fulcrum. Which is the long way of saying you could definitely get it up to G#!

OK, back to solving the original issue. Yes, raising string 1 a whole-step is a very long throw on every guitar I've ever played. It's the nature of that change. Try a .013 gauge for the 1st string (and pay the little extra for the best string you can find!) - lots of people use that gauge without breakage and it will decrease the required lever travel.