Guitar height (and seat too)

[D. Scheindlin]

I’ve got a new GFI on order. Standard GFI height is 26 1/4”. I’ve played GFIs before and any other guitars I’ve played have all been standard height.

A couple months ago I bought a used Carter that happened to be 25.5”. Naturally this felt too low. But I finally got it lifted up to 26” (see pic below) and guess what… it feels too tall. My arms feel uncomfortable going somewhat uphill.

So now I’m thinking about that GFI and feeling like I should order it 1” under, which would put it at 25 1/4. My knee height with shoes is about 23 3/4 so that would leave enough room underneath and if its too low I could raise it a 1/4”.

Am I thinking about this correctly? Would it be preferable for my arms to be parallel to the floor or even headed downhill? And is my seat too high? It’s 21” which is what I’ve been using for a couple years because the 20” seat i had felt too low, but perhaps that’s because I’ve been playing guitars that are too high for me!

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[Steve Lipsey]

Looks like it is tilted forward....why not just lower the back legs a bit so that your arms are at the right angle when playing?

[D. Scheindlin]

That’s just the image. The guitar is level.

[Nathan Eikelberg]

This is something I have struggled with as well. My hunch is that most people have their height “correct” in the sense that it feels comfortable because it’s the way they’ve always had it. It’s akin to a review claiming something is “the best I’ve ever used” while failing to mention it’s the only option they’re ever tried.

I’ve shortened the legs on my pack seat three times and feel like it could probably be a touch lower. Similar to you, my thighs aren’t parallel to the floor, but somewhat intuitively feels like that should be the case (and is generally the ergonomic best-practice in other scenarios as far as I understand it).

Curious if there are any PTs or Ergonomists on the forum that could provide guidelines.

[Bill McCloskey]

I always have to order 1"under legs and rods for every guitar I've ever bought. and I sold my pac-a-seat because it doesn't have adjustable height. I now use either a drum throne or an adjustable height piano seat and that has worked well for me.

[D. Scheindlin]

This is something I have struggled with as well. My hunch is that most people have their height “correct” in the sense that it feels comfortable because it’s the way they’ve always had it. It’s akin to a review claiming something is “the best I’ve ever used” while failing to mention it’s the only option they’re ever tried.

Yep, this is now my hunch as well. I’ll play the current guitar for a bit at it’s raised height, then lower it again and see if I can make a judgment. But I think not having to have my arms going uphill to reach the fretboard feels better - less tension in my arms and shoulders. And the new GFI will be even higher. So my gut is telling me to order it 1” under. If 25 1/4” is too low, I can easily raise 1/2” and already have the components to do it. But if the 26 1/4” is too high, that will be a much more costly problem to rectify.

[D. Scheindlin]

I always have to order 1"under legs and rods for every guitar I've ever bought. and I sold my pac-a-seat because it doesn't have adjustable height. I now use either a drum throne or an adjustable height piano seat and that has worked well for me.

Yeah, I was thinking about getting a drum throne so I can spend time figuring out what height is most comfortable.

Over the past many years (on and off) of playing none of this would have (or did) matter to me. Never occurred to me to think about steel height, and I’d play with whatever seat was available. But well into my fifties, my body feels the differences!

[Steve Lipsey]

The guitar may be level....but if you shorten the back legs it will tilt up a bit in the front and match the slight upward slope of your arms...and the fretboard would be more visible...
I have one 1" under, and one normal height, and I actually like the normal height, tilted a bit, better.....

[D. Scheindlin]

The guitar may be level....but if you shorten the back legs it will tilt up a bit in the front and match the slight upward slope of your arms...and the fretboard would be more visible...
I have one 1" under, and one normal height, and I actually like the normal height, tilted a bit, better.....

I hear what you’re saying and maybe it’s worth seeing how it feels. But the issue isn’t this guitar—I can remove the 1/2” lift easily. The real question is if this guitar feels like perhaps it’s too high, should I order a guitar that’s even taller? I think I’ve arrived at the conclusion that I should order 1” under—easier and much cheaper to raise it a bit than to lower it if it’s too tall.

[Donny Hinson]

Your seat looks too high.

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[Bobby D. Jones]

We are all built different, Body, Legs, Hands and Arms differently proportioned.
We need enough space under the guitar body to allow proper knee lever operation.
I agree with Mr. Hinson, Your legs angel down to your knees in the picture.
(The wear on the pants seam is a real good indicator.)
It seems when people making steel seats for stocking in dealer outlets, Make them 1 size Tall. I was given a seat as a gift. It was 22" tall. I ended up cutting legs to 20 1/2', Then to 19" for a proper fit.
A to high seat can and will cut circulation off to our lower legs. If your legs feel funny or numb when you stand up, After playing for 2 hours or so. The seat may be to high and need lowered.

The human wrist is like a pulley wheel, That the tendons that control the fingers runs over and around. The higher we raise the back of our hand the shorter the tendons that close the fingers, Giving more power in fingers to grip things with. But at same time, It lengthens the tendons that open the fingers. And can't open fingers quickly and accurately, To grab the next grip of strings. So we have to find our hands a position that allows quick positive picking of a string, And quickly and accurately opening our fingers to catch the next strings that needs picked.

From your picture the guitar is a Single body with small shelf. This allows much more adjustment of height and hand position for comfort.
Good Lucking, Getting a comfortable seat and guitar set up.

[Tommy Mc]

Out of curiosity, where are you all measuring the height from? Floor to strings? Floor to top of endplate/body? Leg length?

[Bobby D. Jones]

The statement about 26 1/4" on the GFI steel, Is the front legs length. 28 3/4" to top deck of body. And 29 3/4" to the strings.
This is measurements from my S12 Ultra Keyless, Straight up from the floor.
The back legs of aluminum have a screw adjustable height with a lock nut.

[D. Scheindlin]

Bobby, thanks for the helpful reply.

EDIT: from GFI website: The standard height for a GFI pedal steel guitar is 26 1/4 inches from the floor to the bottom of the back rail.

[D. Scheindlin]

Your seat looks too high.

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Yeah, I need to go pick up a steel tube cutter.

[Fred Treece]

It looks like your lower legs (from the knee down) are perpendicular to the floor. To me, that is more important than forming a 90° angle of the upper leg to the lower leg. It’s a compromise of knee work to footwork. Your arm angle doesn’t look that bad either. Overall I’d say your ergonomics are pretty good and workable. Just use common sense and take frequent breaks during your practice time.

Order the shorter GFI and an adjustable height seat.

[Larry Dering]

I have several pedal steels of various makes and different pac a seats. The seats are normally at 20.5 But depending on the foam and your weight the compression of the seat pad will vary. I often use an office chair at home for comfort and to determine the perfect height for my pac a seat. Since the office chair is height adjustable i can make corrections until i get a perfect fit.