Excel Pedal 8 not lowering 10th string to A.

[fraser]

Hi,

I could use some help here. On my 1995 S10 C6th Excel, the C on the 10th string can't be lowered to A, using the "boo-wah" pedal, or pedal 8 on a double neck. I get about halfway between Bb and A and it won't go any further down.

I had all the nylon (nuts and bellcranks) replaced because they had all cracked. Since then, I haven't been able to get the 10th string to lower all the way. I've had a very good tech look at it here and he wasn't able to fix it.

I backed off the only other 10th string change and that didn't help. I also took off the 1st string lower on that boo-wah pedal but that didn't change anything either. I'm about to see if a slightly lower gauge string might help but before I do that, I was wondering if anyone had any ideas? It's like it needs a little more leverage on the bell crank, or the bell crank needs to engage a little earlier.

Thanks
Fraser

[Ken Pippus]

Might it have a “split stop” keeping the finger from lowering?

[Bobby D. Jones]

First thing: If the guitar has split tuning, Check the finger is not hitting the split screw. In the back of changer housing.

Check the diameter of the 10 string core. If the string has a smaller core diameter, Takes more travel, Could be the problem.

Turn the guitar over, Watch the 10th string Raise lever. If the Raise lever is moving off the stop, That is the problem.

There is a happy balance between, The return spring holding the lower lever, When string is raised, And being long enough. And light enough tension, So the string can be lowered from C to A. Without pulling the raise lever off the stop bar.

To me. When you can set up the C6th 10 string C to A lower, You get nominated for your " Steel Guitar Wizard Wand".

Good luck on this project, Happy Steelin.

[Toshiyuki Shoji]

Try changing the hole position on the bell crank—the one with the white plastic barrel—to a hole farther away from the cross shaft.
I hope everything goes well.

[fraser]

Thanks, Bobby, Ken and Toshiyuki!!

Very helpful. It's great to have that kind of response here.

The lower from A to C used to work before I had the nuts and bell crank plastic replaced so I don't think it is because of a split. I've never used one on this guitar...not even sure it has them. I'll flip it over and see if the raise is being affected. I want to re-configure the other raises and lowers on the 10th string anyhow so that might be a good opportunity to move the rod to a hole further away on the bell crank. I have some taller bell cranks that I might be able to swap in there as well.

Thanks again. Really appreciate it. I hope you're better Toshiyuki.

Fraser

[Bobby D. Jones]

If the lower return spring is not long enough or right tension/diameter wire, It will allow the Raise lever to pull off the stop bar.
If the Raise lever is remaining on the stop bar, Moving the pull rod out 1 hole on the bell crank may accomplish the A to C lower.

What is happening is, If the spring is not the right length or a little to strong, It will allow the raise and lower levers to pivot on the rivet, Causing the problem.
If when the bell cranks and nylon tuning nuts were replaced, The lower return springs may have gotten switched around.

I had that problem with a MSA Classic. Some one had replaced some of the lower return springs, With stronger Carter return springs. I spent a lot of time on the adjustment. A friend gave me a couple original MSA LR springs. Had to stretch 1 spring (No adjustment) about 1/4 inch, For the 10th string C to A lower. Worked perfect.
Good Luck on this project.

[J D Sauser]

I don't know about a 1995 Excel... but all my Superbs could lower not just C to A but also my C tuned up to D down to A. But I'd have a hard time believe that a 95 Excel wouldn't be able to lower that 10th string a minor third.
Besides the obvious concerns about correct leverage relationships, I think something is sticking and maybe pulling the raiser finger along with it (?)

Most's 8th-pedal will control 3 strings. The 10 string takes the longes travel. When I setup a PSG, I start with that 10th string change. Since the other stings are so "touchy", especially the 7th string C going just to C#, I had a reduction sent to an auxiliary cross shaft on some guitars to have a smooth pedal travel fee of "staggers".
So, in your case, after checking that your changer is NOT gummed up, sticking or something pulling along, I would set the leverages and pedal travel so that you use the rod onto the crank bell's slot the farthest away from the shaft and and the closest lower to the changer axle, and then set the travel at the pedal stop, and then only "balance"-in the two other pulls.

... J-D.

[Donny Hinson]

Bobby Jones is dead-on with his (above) tips!

Also, get a cheap one-inch micrometer and check your string gauges whenever you have a problem with pulls being "not-quite there". Some brands of strings have a smaller core in their wound strings, and that will effect how much the string has to be pulled or released to reach a certain note. (I measured the cores of a couple of strings and found the Jagwire and GHS have different sized cores on the same gauge strings.) Some C6th sets have a .068" 10th, and others have a .070" 10th. Also, there are larger gauges available. I've even used a .072" 10th, but D'Addrio also makesa .074" NW string, which may help with this problem on certain guitars.

Lastly, to make it easier for us to help, always mention if this is a new problem, or if it recently cropped up when you made changes, like changing strings, parts, or setups. (You mention that some nylon parts were replaced.) If the guitar made a change before, but won't do it now, obviously something that was done is causing the problem.

[fraser]

My apologies for the delay - I didn't realize there was more responses. Lots of good ideas. I didn't realize that string core diameters could vary. The steel tech I took it to, suggested using a thicker gauge string than the .068, which I thought was counter-intuitive but I tried it and it did not help. I have some .064/.066 strings I'm going to try. It doesn't look to me like the raise is interfering with the lower. I'm going to make an appointment with the steel tech here and see if we can't get it fixed because it is such an iconic part of the C6. This is my "second" guitar but I would like to bring it up to speed with the one I play all the time.
Apologies, Donny, I thought I was pretty clear that it used to work before the repair. "I had all the nylon (nuts and bellcranks) replaced because they had all cracked. Since then, I haven't been able to get the 10th string to lower all the way."

Fraser

[fraser]

Thanks to everyone who responded here. The lower was getting stuck on the raise, as at least one person suggested here.. Patrick Timmons did a great job of fixing it.

Fraser