Session 400 limited

[Gil James]

Can someone explain what the difference is between a Session 400 and a Session 400 Limited is? I've always heard that the standard Session 400 was a great steel amp. I got "LIMITED" in a package deal recently. It is definitely "limiting" my patience trying to get a decent sound out of it. I've tried similar settings that I use on my NV112, but it's not helping. Any tips?

[Ricky Davis]

Yes the "400 Limited" came out in the '90s and yes Very limited on design of parts and electronics....Later model just mean "Cheaper stuff"..ha...
Session 400; and LTD 400 came out '74 and blow anything away made in 90's and almost still blow away Nashville 400 and Session 500, from 80's.
Ricky

[Jerry Overstreet]

Only help I know of for these Limited 400 amps was the mod kits from Peavey or Ken Fox's Intense mods. Unfortunately, these upgrades are no longer available.

A speaker change, like an original BW1502-4 paper cone, aluminum dust cap might help it some too. Not the recent models though. They are only bass or sound reinforcement speakers.

It's a shame because the specs and larger cabinet indicate it should be a very nice sounding steel amp. I don't know how the circuitry differs from the Nashville of the same era, but it just generally falls short and it's just a chore for most players to dial in the ideal steel tone.

[David Higginbotham]

I regret selling a 1973 Session 400 with the original JBL years ago as it was an amazing amp! I also had a Webb & Evans at the time so decided to thin the herd. The Session Limited I later purchased really cheap never did like me. The feeling was mutual.

We’ve had two players locally who played through a limited 400 and they sounded great! But honestly…they sounded great anything they played through.

So I’m sure the tone is there if you keep searching. But it’s a different animal EQ wise than the Session 400 or either Nashville series. Maybe start with each knob centered and add or subtract as needed. The tone stacking is interactive if memory serves me correctly.

Dave

[Gil James]

Well,they named it right Ricky! I assumed being made in Mississippi it would have been a decent amp.

Jerry, it has a 1501-4 black widow with aluminum cone in it. I have 2 more of the same speakers that I use in separate cabs with other amps that sound great, so not the speaker.

Hey David, I've been messing around with the controls on this thing for a month! I'm not one who sounds great through anything, lol, so I need all the help I can get tone wise. Seems like I'm kinda wasting my time fooling with it now.
I'm going see if my wife can use it with her keyboards, if not, I'll just rob the speaker for another project.
Thanks guys.

[Doug Earnest]

Session 400 Limited would be great to use as a power amp / speaker cabinet.

Use a TC Furlong Sesh400 preamp or similar product, go to the power amp in circuit on the Limited.

I bought a 400 Limited new and was quite disappointed.

[Jerry Overstreet]

Jerry, it has a 1501-4 black widow with aluminum cone in it. I have 2 more of the same speakers that I use in separate cabs with other amps that sound great, so not the speaker. I'm going see if my wife can use it with her keyboards, if not, I'll just rob the speaker for another project.
Thanks guys.

Yes I know the 1501 is the factory speaker, the reason I suggested the first edition 1502-4 is it has a different tone. This is the speaker that was used in the early Nashville 400. Then they changed the circuity in that and started using the 1501 about the same time as the Limited came out.

I'm a big fan and user of the 1501 in most Peavey steel amps but the 1502 works better in some of them.

The name Session on this Limited has caused much confusion as players unknowingly associate it with the original Session 400.

One of our members in the now defunct Louisville steel club used the Limited 400 and had a good sound though, so I guess it can be tweaked. Perhaps something in front like Dave suggests or maybe the Sarno Freeloader or Black Box might help get you there.

It should be a really good amp for your wife's keyboards though.

[Bill Terry]

FWIW, the early Session 400 and LTDs were discrete designs, meaning Peavey used transistors, caps, resistors, etc. and there are NO op-amps anywhere. The later Peavey amps (400 Limited included) all have opamps, and Ricky is right, 'it's cheaper stuff'. Why do they sound different? (stolen from a generated Google AI query, but probably a pretty fair explanation):

Also, Ken Fox's upgrades consisted of opamp swaps/upgrades among some other mods if I remember right. Opamps DO vary, depending on cost, etc.. I'd have to think someone somewhere has that stuff written down?? i.e. what opamps were used for the update?

[David Higginbotham]

Gil,
I sent you a PM, sir!

[Dennis Detweiler]

I asked Paul Franklin about the Session Limited several years ago. He said, most steel players in Nashville that used a Limited also used an EQ to get the tone they desired. I had one for a short time and used a Furman PQ-3 with it. They were not a warm sounding amp.

[Tom Jordan]

I had one several years ago and unfortunatley, it was a lemon. It sounded okay but I could never get the reverb to work ( Peavey couldn't either) and I let it go.

Purchaced new, the reverb would "crash" just fine if you shook the cabinet but it wouldn't make it into the the guitar signal. You could hear it faintly at high volume but I think that was from the cabinet vibration.

Having said that, I do miss the volume pedal input/out and the effects loop!

I used a ProFex for effects and EQ. I'm always amazed by how much variation exists in a production amp.

Tom

[Gil James]

As Doug suggested, I fed my Quilter superblock into the amp section,and it sounds great. Its baffling that the eq section is so wonky,assuming that the same type op amp circuitry is used throughout.

Jerry may be right about having a specific speaker being needed to smooth it out. It's definitely not the 1501's that they shipped them with.

Seems like in the 90's, a lot of equipment manufacturers, Fender included, in a rush to be innovative,ie "cheaper", forgot the golden rule of "If it ain't broke dont fix it".

[emil noothout]

When i bought this amp in 2000, it came with a Black Widow 1501-dt speaker, which has a kevlar cone. After i read some discussions on the forum about this speaker i switched to a 150-1 4sb, shallow basket, with a a paper cone. This speaker was warmer to my ears, i found the 1501-dt to be more harsh. I've always wondered if the 1501-dt could be one of the causes for the bad reputation of the Session 400 Limited. On the other hand, some people on the forum preferred the kevlar cone.
When i asked Mike Brown about the differences to the original Session 400 the answer was: we used identical schematic prints to layout the tone circuit, but also added the front panel patch points.

[Dennis Detweiler]

If the layout is the same, then it had to be the transistors vs OP Amps that changed the tone? I'm not an electronics guru, but I would think that the transistor circuit board would have more individual components compared to the chips?

[Chance Duhon]

I have a session 400 Limited in my shop right now that belongs to Joe Rogers. I will be upgrading the amp to quality parts and different op-amps. I will be offering this service to anyone. Message me if interested!

[Joe Rogers]

Gil, the all important question - does the front of the chassis have a gray strip or green strip...?? And you'll never guess where I'm going with that question...LOL..!!


Joe Rogers

[Gil James]

Uh-oh, it's got the bluish green strip . Lay it on me Joe.

[Joe Rogers]

Gil,

This response is going to raise some eyebrows.....it sure raised mine when I found out. David Higginbotham was correct in saying, "We’ve had two players locally who played through a limited 400 and they sounded great!" One of those individuals happened to be a Factory authorized repairman for Fender and Peavey products. The Session 400 Ltd. was his amp of choice and his sounded absolutely killer...!!! His amps were modded with Burr Brown chips, and Chance Duhon of Magnolia Amplification will be carrying on this tradition. But the mod alone is not the total solution.

My friend told me he owned the earlier model with the gray strip. He modded it, played the tar out of it.....so much that the cabinet was coming apart at the seams. At the time he decided to buy a replacement, the newer model had been released...the one with the green strip.

When he tested it out, he said it sounded horrible. He studied the chassis, everything appeared identical to the first amp. So, he modded it according to the way he modded his first one. Played a gig with it and it still sounded horrible. He pulled the chassis out, studied everything, all looked identical to the first amp. Scratching his head, the light bulb came on. He took the newer green strip chassis and put it into the older gray strip cabinet. VOILA...!!! The amp came alive, sounding identical to his gray strip model...!!!!

Peavey went to thicker cabinet dimensions on the green strip amp, and the thicker wood is what killed the sound as well as likely killed sales. So all of you posting that your amp sounded horrible...now you know why. It isn't the amp. Either get a new cabinet built with thinner wood, or put the chassis in a head cabinet and have a separate speaker cabinet. Get the amp modded with Burr Brown chips...if you can find them. Know that the chips are getting harder to find, and getting pricey....but the parts are still out there.

And now you know....the rest of the story...

Joe Rogers

[Gil James]

The CAB !?
I assume the same speakers in both?
Just for kicks I fed the preamp out into the amp in on an old closed back bass amp with same speaker in it. It did warm it up quite a bit. I've never had an original session to compare to, and the eq section must be different from the Nashville series, I still can't dial it in like a NV112. But that's probably my incompetence....
Joe, you win the Paul Harvey award today.
Thanks for chiming in!

[Dennis Detweiler]

I put my 400 Limited into a head cabinet to lighten my load, then added the brown chips and found no noticeable results. I never tried the pre-amp out into another power head.

[Joe Rogers]

I do know that my buddy's mod consisted of way more than changing out a few Burr Brown chips. Chance Duhon will have the capability to do the complete mod.

Also, I'm not quite sure whether or not he used the 3 cable route, running the guitar straight to input, and running volume pedal in and out of front effects loop. I have to confirm that with him....


Joe Rogers

[Gil James]

The 3 cable volume pedal setup. That's about the only thing I haven't tried yet. Someone mentioned that the front input Jack's were the only things added to the original 400's circuits . Could it be that's the sauce?

[Larry Dering]

Larry Sassar used the Limited and got a great tone. Look for his settings as a reference. I was gifted a Session 400 Limited for Christmas from my late wife back in the 90s. I struggled with it for years. I didn't have the heart to tell her I hated it. I use it as a powered speaker by feeding the power amp in with a Boss GT1 processor.

[Gil James]

Thanks Larry, I have searched with no luck on this amps settings from anyone. From what I've gleaned from some of these searches on Mr Sasser, it appears he may have used a Profex in front of his amps in his later years. Which seems to be how most players used this thing, just bypassing the eq altogether. I'm kind of stubborn with problems like this,and I love old boat anchors,so I'll keep turning knobs for awhile. Then again, I may head south and have a visit with Chance.

[Chance Duhon]

Mr Gil, come on down! I’d love the visit! Maybe Joe Rogers will be available to come visit with us!