B11 lapsteel tunes.

[Rich Arnold]

Hey gang,
I remember reading quite a lot on this forum about the B11 tuning. I've been kicking some songs around in that tuning. I mentioned to a friend that a person can build lots of chords with that tuning. Me and my big mouth.
So hear we go....
The B11 I'm using (there's probably more than one) is:
E
C#
A
F#
D#
B
F#
B

I used to loath that tuning until I accidently discovered it on PSG.
Strange how things work out sometimes. R.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuVYqQaIxdU

[BJ Burbach]

Rich, you are my hero! All of your stuff has such depth and style.
BJ

[Tony Oresteen]

Rich,

Sounds great! Thanks!

I compared it to Don Helms' B13.




The top 6 strings are the same. I recall that Don only used his top 6 strings. Both tunings have an F# in the bass.

I have a neck reserved for Don's B13 but it's not set up yet.

[Fred Treece]

Beautiful.

[Andy Volk]

Beautiful and impressive playing, Rich! I've said it for years - B11th tuning is not just for Hawaiian music; it's a wide open canvas for creative arranging and improv. From my B11th book ....

[Nic Neufeld]

B11th is considered a Hawaiian tuning because of timing, mostly...we think of it as Hawaiian, but at the time it was most popular, with Andy Iona and later Jules Ah See playing it...a lot of those Hawaiian songs were basically jazz tunes. It's perfect for midcentury jazz music...Hawaiian or otherwise!

[Rich Arnold]

Rich, you are my hero! All of your stuff has such depth and style.
BJ

Thanks for taking time to listen. I really appreciate it.

[Rich Arnold]

Beautiful.

Thanks Fred!

[Rich Arnold]

Thanks for everybody who listened and posted. I'm going through some sort of personal steel guitar revival.

When I first tried the B11 I hated it. But about a year later I was screwing around on PSG and inadvertently discovered this very intriguing thing where I had a couple pedals down. I messed around with it for hours before I realized, and said to myself, "Hey you idiot! That's the B11 you hate so much!" LOL! It tricked me!
I thought I had made some sort of wonderful discovery. LOL!

Roll forward to about a month ago. I had this nice old lady who I had been knowing for most of my life GIVE me a 1950s Magnatone! I offered to buy it but she told me to just take it. She said she could no longer play it because of arthritis. I have that in my neck but not my fingers. Knock on wood.

I wasn't really looking for another guitar and didn't know exactly what I was going to do with it. It had a C6 on it. Since I have a 6th tuning and a E13 on my D8, I decided to tune the Magnatone to B11, just for shits and giggles and learn Jules Ah See's version of "Sand".
But then that stuff I had been doing on the PSG last year in B11 started coming back to me.

If I play well it's mostly by accident and coincidence. Practice helps, but it's mostly accidental in spite of my shortcommings and sometimes stupiddity.

[Jim Mckay]

Lovely stuff going on there. thanks for posting Rich

[Rich Arnold]

Lovely stuff going on there. thanks for posting Rich

Thanks.

Y'all let me know what you want to hear more of and I'll try to whip something up for you. If it's humanly possible I'll give it a shot.

[Rich Arnold]

Here's another B11 tune I've been trying to play.
I didn't want to start another thread and risk boring everybody with yet another rendition of "Sand" so I'll tack it on here.
https://youtu.be/x1FK98rm31s?si=xlclPTLvaSeFJ97t

[Jim Mckay]

Great music once again Rich.
Rich, you asked if we could suggest a B11 tune to post. I think you would produce a great version of Django Reinhardt's "Nuages"
It fit's those ninth chords in B11. I know you could do it a real justice
P.S. My preferred B11 when I tried this was from Hi to Lo E-C#-A-F#-D#-C#-A-(B low bass) The 6th string tunned C# made it fit easier for me (I sometimes drop it to B) I don't use 8th string A low bass on this one myself
Regards Jim

[Rich Arnold]

Great music once again Rich.
Rich, you asked if we could suggest a B11 tune to post. I think you would produce a great version of Django Reinhardt's "Nuages"
It fit's those ninth chords in B11. I know you could do it a real justice
P.S. My preferred B11 when I tried this was from Hi to Lo E-C#-A-F#-D#-C#-A-(B low bass) The 6th string tunned C# made it fit easier for me (I sometimes drop it to B) I don't use 8th string A low bass on this one myself
Regards Jim

Thanks Jim.
Yea, Nuages. You have good ears.
I've never tried it. It looks good on paper.
I'm so far as improv, I feel sorta hobbled by the B11 due to my own limitations of course.

[Tim Toberer]

Great suggestion! Nuages is one of my favorite tunes. Here is a gorgeous version by Jack Richards for inspiration. It's pedal steel E13, but very old school style. It starts at 9:50.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOZP2-ajglw

Rich this may be greedy, but I think everyone would like to know more about your technique, especially on some of those faster Bebop tunes. Your videos are a little grainy and dreamlike, not great for stealing your technique. Any chance you could do a slower close up of some of your moves? I understand if this isn't something you want to do, but I am greedy. I had a realization, when you said you wear 4 fingerpicks, you were including your thumb pick.

[Lloyd Graves]

Christo Rupenthal has 2 videos of Nuages up. Done in A11. Great renditions.

https://youtu.be/a4ihvwHmDk0?si=IEout4FOkYCj5PD8

He also has a nice version of Georgia on my Mind somewhere it there.

Both of his albums are, to my understanding, fine all in A11.

[Rich Arnold]

Great suggestion! Nuages is one of my favorite tunes. Here is a gorgeous version by Jack Richards for inspiration. It's pedal steel E13, but very old school style. It starts at 9:50.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOZP2-ajglw

Rich this may be greedy, but I think everyone would like to know more about your technique, especially on some of those faster Bebop tunes. Your videos are a little grainy and dreamlike, not great for stealing your technique. Any chance you could do a slower close up of some of your moves? I understand if this isn't something you want to do, but I am greedy. I had a realization, when you said you wear 4 fingerpicks, you were including your thumb pick.

Thanks Tim.
I got 3 videos up on Vimeo where I give instructions.
I get my video quality is not good.
https://vimeo.com/923194818

[Rich Arnold]

Christo Rupenthal has 2 videos of Nuages up. Done in A11. Great renditions.

https://youtu.be/a4ihvwHmDk0?si=IEout4FOkYCj5PD8

He also has a nice version of Georgia on my Mind somewhere it there.

Both of his albums are, to my understanding, fine all in A11.

Thanks Lloyd. I'm really doing a lot of listening these days. Listen to other steel players.
Funny,
I'm coming up on 60 years old and the stark realization hit me that I might not have time to do everything I want to try on the steel guitar.
I'm glad there are lots of players.

[Rich Arnold]

Great suggestion! Nuages is one of my favorite tunes. Here is a gorgeous version by Jack Richards for inspiration. It's pedal steel E13, but very old school style. It starts at 9:50.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOZP2-ajglw

Rich this may be greedy, but I think everyone would like to know more about your technique, especially on some of those faster Bebop tunes. Your videos are a little grainy and dreamlike, not great for stealing your technique. Any chance you could do a slower close up of some of your moves? I understand if this isn't something you want to do, but I am greedy. I had a realization, when you said you wear 4 fingerpicks, you were including your thumb pick.

I talk about Bebop here:
https://vimeo.com/923968843

[Tim Toberer]

Great suggestion! Nuages is one of my favorite tunes. Here is a gorgeous version by Jack Richards for inspiration. It's pedal steel E13, but very old school style. It starts at 9:50.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOZP2-ajglw

Rich this may be greedy, but I think everyone would like to know more about your technique, especially on some of those faster Bebop tunes. Your videos are a little grainy and dreamlike, not great for stealing your technique. Any chance you could do a slower close up of some of your moves? I understand if this isn't something you want to do, but I am greedy. I had a realization, when you said you wear 4 fingerpicks, you were including your thumb pick.

I talk about Bebop here:
https://vimeo.com/923968843

That is exactly what I was after. Amazing insight! Swedish Pastry, Giant Steps, Cherokee, what a treat!! Thank you for doing that, you have a rare gift. I think the most important thing I get from it is find your own voice. And as you have shown, whatever you are trying to learn, it is on there somewhere. I really like your comments about Bebop in general, what is it exactly? There is definitely a common language, but there is nothing rigid about it. It is wide open.

I am trying to dig deeper in my melodic playing and for me I love theory, but in the end you have to let it go and just play. I came to the same conclusion about playing chord melodies on the lap steel, a main reason why I play pedals now. There is some great stuff in the non pedal tunings, but it is frustrating when it just isn't there. For melodic playing, pedals aren't really that helpful. Thankfully I have a full A6 with pedals 1&2 down and a full C6 with pedals 2&3 down.

[Rich Arnold]

Thanks Tim,

Maybe i do have a knack or gift, but these day I try not to take myself to seriously. The steel has become just a lot of fun for me and a means by which I escape for a while.
I've always tried my best to get a good audio sound and my computer and web cam are over 15 years old. Vintage equipment.
I can't imagine anybody trying to learn by watching a video. Like watching the fingers of a saxophone player. But everybody has thier own approach to learning I suppose that works for them.
I do enjoy the chord building that the PSG gives me but the lap steel has such an expressive sound.

Iv'e been listen to Basil Henriques these days. He is a pedal player but has a very expressive sound.
He has some blistering hot PUS in that guitar! Like you could probably fry baccon on it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMbBWldZot0

[Joe A. Roberts]

Basil is one of the all time best IMO, either with pedals or no pedals, and he is also a great country E9th player. He is also hilarious and a true fountain of knowledge!
This is one of my favorite of his vids, I've listened to it regularly for years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj93ZxtRyTQ

Great version of Sand using E C# A F# D# B A B (no pedals)

And his version of Body and Soul on his unique copedent is so beautiful... I don't know if his pickups are particularly hot, but he does have a second one added on the pedal neck. I know he uses digital delay.

I agree with Jim above on E C# A F# D# C# A B, that is also my favorite B11th.
It is two strings closer to being the same as fifth on top 6th tuning with more F# minor 6th and A major 6th voicings!
Even with 6 strings I might prefer a C# on the bottom instead of B.
With 8 it is a no brainer, personally, because the low B is there on the bottom when it is needed.

I guess a lot of people prefer E C# A F# D# B F# B because it was used by Jules Ah See, but I also wonder if it isn't because it same intervals as P7 and P8 together on C6th PS, as you mentioned.

Tony Locke whoops ass with E C# A F# D# C# A F# and that is even closer to A6th!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5TS8WAHHO4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQHWGiCNQyU

[Tim Toberer]

Thanks Tim,


I can't imagine anybody trying to learn by watching a video. Like watching the fingers of a saxophone player. But everybody has thier own approach to learning I suppose that works for them.
I do enjoy the chord building that the PSG gives me but the lap steel has such an expressive sound.

Iv'e been listen to Basil Henriques these days. He is a pedal player but has a very expressive sound.
He has some blistering hot PUS in that guitar! Like you could probably fry baccon on it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMbBWldZot0

I guess what I was really hoping for was a slower walkthrough of a couple Bebop heads. Of course doing the work for myself is probably the best method, because you retain it so much better. I think the first few will be the hardest. I didn't get anywhere when I tried to figure out Anthropology. Blues for Alice is on my list as well. This is the type of thing that is easy to find for guitar but nonexistent for steel. Mainly because almost no one can play it. At regular speed I can at least pick out what part of the neck a part of a melody is played in, which pocket, but Bebop is so chromatic, the typical pockets don't really apply. Anyway, thanks again, great stuff you are doing!!

I had another insight into what you call a hack. It kind of reminds me of some of the Barry Harris hacks for adding chromatic notes to melodies. It involves where the chord tones fall, which note you start on, and how many chromatic notes you can add to each note. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWDXKBtS9gU

I don't really think of my pedal steel as any different than a lap steel. It's the same notes when I have pedals down. Basil is a living legend. I have gotten so much inspiration from the info he has shared on the site and his videos.

[Rich Arnold]

Hey Tim.

I'd be happy to slow down and video some bebop heads. Maybe I'll attempt something this weekend if time allows.
I've never tried Anthropology.
But I suspect it's there, but in the key of D on the A6.
I'm at work right this minute and don't have my guitar to check that.
But, I have a strange ability, when I hear something, I can visualize where the notes are on the neck.
I see quite a bit of Anthropology in D. Try that on for size.

[Tim Toberer]

Hey Tim.

I'd be happy to slow down and video some bebop heads. Maybe I'll attempt something this weekend if time allows.
I've never tried Anthropology.
But I suspect it's there, but in the key of D on the A6.
I'm at work right this minute and don't have my guitar to check that.
But, I have a strange ability, when I hear something, I can visualize where the notes are on the neck.
I see quite a bit of Anthropology in D. Try that on for size.

That incredibly kind of you Rich! I am sure there are a few others who would find this helpful as well. I know Bebop isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I feel if you can learn these tunes, you could learn anything. I have a spare 8 string lap steel I am gonna tune down to G6.