Lap Steel 3 (was) acoustic

[Gerald K. Robbins]

Hi,
Here is another quick report of my experiments building a lap steel guitar.

I had high hopes for this one, and I do like the way it looks.

But, this one has started out as a dud for sound. It may be the small pot, recycled from a banjo/uku I made many years ago.
There is just no sustian for the high notes or strings. The bass strings sound OK.

the neck is maple, the fret board is purple heart, and the pot is steel with an aluminum tone ring. I used another set of used tuners.

For now it's tuned to GBDGBD, I broke lots of strings trying to get the high B and D strings to sound off. Kept trying thicker strings.
the wound lower wound strings sound fine.

I had great fun building this, and am not sorry at all, even if I need to keep on trying to fine a tuning that works. or just hang it on the wall.

My next guess is fatter strings, and tuned down to low D, but keep the intervals the same.
D F# A D F# A.

[Gerald K. Robbins]

Hi,
Quick follow up.
Tried low D major, too muddy.

Went to A major.
E 14
C# 17
A 20
E 30
C# 36
A 42

Much better, clear notes, not much sustain., to be expected. Loud with picks.

Overall a fun project, with a unique voice, and not much spent to finish it. Had everything but the strings on hand.

This makes 7 new to me instruments in 4 months. Should be enough for a while.
Everything is tuned G major or A major for now. Open to different tunings after I learn more.

gkentr

[Tim Toberer]

Cool project! I am curious how it sounds and kind of wondered why no one had done this to my knowledge. Biscuit cone guitars sound a lot like banjos to me.

[Tim Whitlock]

Don't mean to be Captain Obvious, but banjos are not noted for their sustain.

[Tim Toberer]

Don't mean to be Captain Obvious, but banjos are not noted for their sustain.

For certain styles of playing this is actually a good thing. I can't remember which famous player, but I read about him using a thin hollow bar to kill the sustain when he played barrelhouse piano type pieces. I think it was a Tavares brother or possibly Vance Terry. Anyway I cut a piece of 3/4 brass tube and I have been using it regularly for more of a stuccato effect. Really opens up a whole new world.

[Gerald K. Robbins]

I have enjoyed this project.

I do understand how banjos lack sustain and have been experimenting for years on how to add some.
Finally made one that has good sustain, an open back with an expensive tone ring, virtical grain for the rim,
heavy home made brackets and nuts, thicker strings , three extra frets and tuned to open D, often capoed at 3 for key of F.

The BG police don't like this, wrong range, some of the church people don't like it, too country, some of the country people
don't like it, too old time, some of the old time people don't like it, too loud. Well,,, I like it.

If it seems like I have "gone round the bend" with my experiments, that may be true. I will not even argue the point.
but I am reminded of the hunter.
If meat on the table is what matters, then save time, trouble and money and but from a butcher.

Still, people hunt. They buy up. losd up, drive out, camp out, suffer heat, cold, bugs and other hunters to maybe bring home meat.

My time spent with music / instruments is a bit like the hunt.

The insperation for this latest lap was the Frypan. Can' t afford to buy one but can afford to make what I made,

In the quest for better sound the thinner strings helped. Tuning to A maj helped.
Playing away from the bridge helped.

The next tewst is a different bridge. First a piece of scrap aluminum from a door frame.
then a "sandwich" of aluminum and wood, custom fit.

This has really helped the high notes, added sustain, and toned down the bass,
The old modifyied banjo bridge is to the side, as well as the aluminum test bribge.

Still chewing on what to do about sending or uploading sound clips. I keep on resisting joining the 20th century. Did someone say it's 2024?

[Tim Toberer]

Very clean work! I am curious how you made the brackets? Also what is the rim made of? very thin looks quite good. I have had a couple banjo projects I have been dreaming about for a while. One is a large bodied 6 string like the old Gibson GB. Great for ragtime. I built a large mold for bending the rims a while ago, but got completely sidetracked with steel guitars. I really like the idea Steeljo! I think it might work for the kind of music I play where I don't always want a lot of sustain. Thanks for sharing your lovely projects

[Gerald K. Robbins]

Hi Tim,

This set of brackets and hooks came from a "tossed out" broken tenor banjo dating from 1908 or so.

I have made some brackets , nuts and hooks many years ago using a unimat hobby lathe/mill combo.
Still have some brackets and nuts in parts.
I used 1/4" brass hex for the nuts, and 3/8" brass hex for the brackets. Also one set of brackets made from 3/8" round stock.

The hooks were either 16 penny nails or a chunk of heavy dog run wire hammered to shape on a vise
and tapped/ threaded to 8-32. Then buffed on a buffing wheel made from a tossed out well pump motor.

Still have the buffing wheel. no longer have the unimat or the desire to spend hours making small parts.

This one rim is made from 2 1/2 " of 8" steel tubing, about 1/8" thick.
The tone ring was turned by me on an old Logan lathe that has also gone away.

One fun way to make rims is to glue up blocks, rough cut on a band saw, and then turn on a lathe.
That is not my idea.
It was the last chapter of Earl Scruggs book that started me making those.

I have tried building banjos from nearly anything round, as have others, and it often gets back to
"nothing new under the sun", most everything has been tried. Block rims can sound good.
not all banjos are used for BG, and if my history is correct the "Mastertone" was developed for a tenor
to be heard with Dixieland Jazz. As in too loud.


Sounds like you might have a good banjo styled project.
A large rimed, like 12" or more, 6 string might produce a mellow sound. As in not so loud and lower in tone.
If more volume is wanted a mic or pickup could be added,

I did build a fretless banjo once from a snare drum for a pot.
Very mellow and soft sound, and a bit like a slide.

That project is long gone but I have kept an old snare drum around to possibly make another.
Now that I gone overboard with steel I can see setting that up for a slide.

And I thought I was done building any more instruments 5 years ago.

gkentr

[Tim Toberer]

Hi Tim,


Then buffed on a buffing wheel made from a tossed out well pump motor.

This one rim is made from 2 1/2 " of 8" steel tubing, about 1/8" thick.


I did build a fretless banjo once from a snare drum for a pot.

Now that I gone overboard with steel I can see setting that up for a slide.

And I thought I was done building any more instruments 5 years ago.

gkentr

We think alike! I love building instruments from stuff that I find lying around. Great idea for the banjo rim!! I too have gone overboard for steel. Not everyone around here is as receptive to new ideas as I would like but don't let them scare you away.

[Gerald K. Robbins]

Hi Tim,
Thanks for your reply.
I've been too many years outside the mainstream anything to be bothered much.

Too late to be somebody else.

The Imperial weissenborn remains a stock instrument, has great sound, and will remain stock.

For the rest, anything goes.

Even if you are the only one who might enjoy this pic, I will post it anyway. I am wondering what 5 years of steel will look like.

From 1995, after 7 years of "overboard banjo". There were some more, but not every thing was worth hanging on the wall.

[Gerald K. Robbins]

The new bridge helped the sustain, but not the overall volume.
Plenty loud for practice, and for one small room, not enough for any size gig. Tried it out Tuesday night.

the next experiment was to add a pickup. I had one thin enough to fit under the strings.

This pickup is bedded in silicon to the 8" drum head, both to hold it in place and stop any rattles.
I did cut a small hole in the head for the wires to go through.
Then added a standard 1/4 " socket for a cord in the rim.

The extra weight of the pick up does dampen the acoustic volume a bit, when played without picks, but with finger picks not much,
Does not seem to change the tone.

the pickup works like it should, and tone / volume depend on what amp / pedals are used.
So far this setup has not produced the feedback common to amping banjos with a pickup under the bridge.

I'm hoping this will open up choices of where it can be played.

[Gerald K. Robbins]

Hi,
It's been a while now since I've posted anything but still enjoy hearing things played steel.
Still learning slowly and becoming comfortable using the steel in addition to my fingers for notes and chords.

This homebuilt "jobro" is the instrument I play the most, and is the one that stays set up for stand up playing,
resting on a small shelf attached to the counter between the kitichen and back porch. A very handy spot.

The small, 8", banjo head produces enough volume to be heard bare fingers, and responds well to using picks.
Then the pickup allows the use of any size amp for outdoor use.
By sticking to the common GBDGBD tuning i can transfer things learned on the banjo to steel, and have been able
to transfer things learned on steel to banjo.

I do not play straight BG on banjo, but play a BG influenced folk / Americana / strum / fingerpicking mix that now includes some steel influence as well. While I do own a BG banjo, that one stays in the case most of the time, and it's the openbacks, banjola, or the Ovation "guitanjo" that get played.

And now the Jobro as well.

So far it's been a great journey.
G. K. Robbins