Advice on upgrade/new lap steel

[Eric Doguet]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum. I've been playing non-pedal lap steel and dobro for a year now, but have played banjo and guitar for many years. I have a Gretsch G5700 lap steel I got off reverb and I've been playing in C6, mostly country/americana and some Hawaiian. While I think it sounds okay, I don't really like how narrow the width of the nut is, as the strings being so close together feels odd to me. I feel ready to make an upgrade and have been looking around online. I came across this: https://reverb.com/item/81571120-oahu-t ... age-1940-s and I was wondering if that seems like a reasonable price for a tonemaster. I listened to some people playing tonemasters on youtube and absolutely loved the tone. It also has one of those stringtone tuning changers, which I think could be fun as it would make it easier for me to try out E7 tuning. I'm mostly wondering if the sound quality of the tonemaster is considerably different than models such as 50's magnatones, supros, etc, which I see around priced slightly less, generally. Any input or opinions would be appreciated.

Best,

Eric

[Noah Miller]

Well yes, the sound of this Kay-built steel will be very different from any Magnatone, and both will be very different from any Supro. Which one sounds best is entirely down to your ears - fortunately there are demos of all of them on Youtube so you're not flying totally blind.

But if the issue is the string spacing, you could just look into replacing the nut with a wider one.

[Michael Miller]

Eric,
Georgeboards (a member/vendor here) sells a wider replacement nut for the Gretsch 5700 that helps with the tight string spacing. It might be worth a few bucks to make your guitar playable again!

Here is his ad on Reverb:

https://reverb.com/item/81088107-replac ... orgeboards

[Joseph Lazo]

Hey Eric,
I have both a Gretsch 5700 and a vintage Tonemaster. Yes, the string spacing on the Gretsch is narrow compared to most lap steels. It feels more like the spacing on an electric guitar, which is probably why they went with it...to make it more "familiar" feeling for guitar players. However, I don't think they took into account that most lap steel players use fingerpicks. I don't, so it's not a big issue for me. My biggest nitpick on the Gretsch is that the strings aren't high enough above the fretboard. It makes behind-the-bar string pulls harder because my finger makes contact with the fretboard too easily.

That said, I think the Gretsch sounds absolutely fantastic both clean and dirty. I like it so much I considered buying one of those pickups, even though I have no immediate use for it. The least expensive way for you to go would be to get a wider nut from Georgeboards (forumite George Pilburn). However, this would not address the string height issue unless you asked for one that sits higher, and then I believe you'd need a higher saddle height, too. Also, with the Gretsch there's plenty of room behind the bridge to add benders if you wanted them at some point.

One big difference between the Gretsch and the Tonemaster is scale length. The Gretsch is 22.5", the Tonemaster is 25". The makes slants a little more challenging, but it also makes for deeper low end. The pickup on mine is really hot, measuring 10.6 ohms (per the seller). It has a "fat" sound and breaks up quickly, almost too quickly, but it also "sings" nicely. I paid more for mine than the one you're looking at, but mine is a closet queen with barely any signs of use and came with a vintage Geib case in excellent condition.

I think the Tonemaster is one of the most beautiful lap steels ever made and, as you've noticed from YouTube demos, it has a great sound. Keep in mind, though, the Oahu is about 80 years old and if it has the original electronics they may be degraded to the point they'll need to be replaced. Make sure to ask about stuff like that, as well as the output of the pickup. Also ask about any bad smells from the guitar and case. Mine reeked of mildewy basement. Took several days of cleaning and airing out to get rid of it.

[George Piburn]

Hello from GeorgeBoards just saw this thread, If any of these can help , glad to.

I have the wider replacement nut only same height as the little metal one, wider spacing.

We also have a taller version of the same 1/2 tall both nut and bridge.

I additionally have for the roller bendr folks, a wide roller nut and roller bridge to fit the 5700 - Grounded.

We have both Black and White.

Here is a photo of what Joseph is asking for.

[Joseph Lazo]

George, can you refresh my memory on the cost for the taller nut and bridge? I know you mentioned it somewhere before, but I can't remember where. Thanks.

[Steve Lipsey]

Eric-
I believe it depends on what is under that pickup cover...I have an Oahu Diana with a string-through pickup, and that is the source of that great, thick tone. Some Oahus had string-throughs, but with fake magnets in one position, and some had other pickups entirely.
I found that a guitar-type pickup sounds like a regular guitar...and it needs the string-through (or a horseshoe pickup) to get that full tone...having the magnet surround the strings is hugely different than having it just on one side.
I believe that most, if not all, Dianas have the string-through, but that Tonemasters vary.
I also have a custom Ben Bonham reso+lap instrument with a Lollar string-through, with that same thick tone...if you want your dream instrument, he's the guy..

[Eric Doguet]

Hello everyone,

I apologize for the long delay in responding to all of you. I appreciate all the input. I was offered a very reasonable price for a 1950's Oahu Tonemaster in decent condition and took the offer. I love the tone and I think I like the 25 in scale length better, perhaps since I'm coming from playing dobro. This will probably be what I stick with for a while as I get down the fundamentals of C6 tuning. But I do want to thank all of you for recommending those modifications I could make to the Gretsch, I will think on that see if I want to make those adjustments or not. This forum has been a very great resource and I'm happy to be a part of it now!

Happy picking,

-Eric

[Joseph Lazo]

Hello from GeorgeBoards just saw this thread, If any of these can help , glad to.

I have the wider replacement nut only same height as the little metal one, wider spacing.

We also have a taller version of the same 1/2 tall both nut and bridge.

I additionally have for the roller bendr folks, a wide roller nut and roller bridge to fit the 5700 - Grounded.

We have both Black and White.

Here is a photo of what Joseph is asking for.

George, this is a screen shot from a video of a guy changing out a 5700 bridge for benders. You can see there are string ferrules that do not sit flush to the body. Are these the string ferrules you referred to when you said you had to push them down when you changed the bridge for one of your printed bridges?