Two feet on pedals...

[Andrew Frost]

I am terrible at this. It is not something I practice or really ever do.
But it seems like a total waste of resources to not 'double foot', as the available voicings increase substantially...
Thoughts ?

[Dave Grafe]

What "additional voicings" would you find useful on a fully set up D10?

What combination of pedals below would be worth taking your foot off the VP? What useful voicings are not already available on a full Emmons or Crawford copedant?

[Ron Funk]

Hi Dave -

Always enjoy seeing your posts on the Forum......

While playing C6th neck, use of P5 and P7 in combination is quite common.

'pretty sure you've heard that many times before.

Ron

[Dave Grafe]

While playing C6th neck, use of P5 and P7 in combination is quite common.

That is a very good example, and I have seen video of Buddy Emmons taking his right foot off the VP to do that. It requires a VP that holds its position, which has been an iffy prospect in my experience, so I have not followed suit. If you can pull it off it's a worthy move.

[Andrew Frost]

Yes, that D13 voicing on P5&7 sounds very different than just lowering string 3 while P5 is down..
I agree that the chord types are all available without double footing, but the variety of voicings increases with two feet.

[Ian Rae]

I use 5 and 7 together a lot, but I have them next to each other with 6 on a lever.

I also have the 7th-string ½-step raise on a vertical, so I can get 5,6,7 and 8 without leaving the VP (I rarely use the full pedal 8)

Taking your foot off the pedal is no problem! It's putting it back...

[Jerry Overstreet]

I two foot regularly but I have pedal 8 at pedal 4 position and the E9 Franklin 5&8 whole tone drop on pedal 8 with lowering 8&9 on the C neck.

Either way, certain voicings sometimes call for two feet on the pedals...especially on some jazz things.

It's just like anything else on the pedal steel. Takes acclimation and practice. Once you're into it, it becomes second nature.

Yes, it does also take some getting use to putting your foot back on the vp and it also takes a good volume pedal that stays where you put it when you take your foot off.

[Andrew Frost]

Taking your foot off the pedal is no problem! It's putting it back...

...quitting smoking is easy, I do it all the time

Jokes aside, it is indeed landing that right foot back smoothly on the VP that is tricky. Seems to be that finishing the phrase and then replacing the foot is a good way to do it.

[Frank Freniere]

Back in the day Jeff Newman ran the “Mooneared” series in his newsletter which contained several Mooney licks using both feet on the E9 pedals.

[Donny Hinson]

I put P5 on a knee lever, which saves a lot of 2-footing.

[Dave Mudgett]

I mostly double-foot C6/B6 Boo-wah wherever it's located - P8 on a D10 or P4 on my universal E9/B6. That, for me, is a whole thing unto itself with the other 6th-tuning pedals and levers. All but one of my old Sho Bud volume pedals stay right where I leave them when I pull my foot off. And I'll eventually get around to fixing that one so it does.

[Ian Rae]

Donny, that's the other way of doing it. I figured that P6 did less and was better suited to a lever. Rocking between 5&7 has some of the same feel as A&B, as I use Day.

[Mike Bacciarini]

On my E9 S10 3/5 (Emmons) I occasionally use my right foot to hammer on/off the C pedal while holding A and B down.

[Dale Rottacker]

So many ways to arrange pedals and levers. I raise my A's on MKV which works great with the 5th or 6th pedal ... I lower the A's on MKR which words great with the 5th pedal. I need to start incorporating pedal 5 & 7 more as I do love that voicing.

[Andrew Frost]

Thanks for the input here, all.
I appreciate the perspectives.

Funny that using two feet really opens things up in terms of harmonic possibilities, and yet it is not that commonly done.
With what little woodshedding I've done with it, the process gets smoother and easier with practice, including that re-placement of the right foot.

Pedal layout plays a factor too...
You can't add your right foot on a chord tone / pedal if your left is already down and close to the VP....
So the 'ornamentation' approach, for example, spontaneously adding pedal 7 while P5 is already down, is somewhat intuitive because the pedal 7 added chord tones are over by the VP more or less and the left foot isn't too far over to block it.

[John Swain]

FWIW. Emmons used his right on p7 and p8 even if his left foot was idle, but he was the best ever. That said I watched Buck Reid play an entire set and he only used his right foot once (on Bootheel Drag)! I don't use my right foot ever ! Landing back on the VP without jarring it is a skill I haven't achieved in 50 years.My friend Jack Stanton says it a chick magnet though ! LOL

[Andrew Frost]

ha, a good dance move goes a long way

[scott murray]

the stuff I like to play on C6 requires 2 feet more often than not. I generally set the volume pedal and don't use it for back neck playing. I've seen footage of Buddy doing the same, at least for certain tunes.

aside from Curly Chalker's excellent volume pedal technique, C6 doesn't really require volume control the way E9 does. and often in the case of Ralph Mooney, neither did E9!

[scott murray]

here's a couple on-topic photos of Big E

[Ian Rae]

It's clear that when BE defined the C6 pedal setup for posterity, he intended to use both feet because he was confident doing so and was not totally dependent on the VP for his phrasing. So all we need is his degree of confidence!

[scott murray]

Little Darlin is one song where Buddy used both feet and mostly stayed off the volume pedal: https://youtu.be/w43Rdp3TI-4

and about 40 secs into this version of B. Bowman Hop he takes his foot off the volume and leaves it off for the rest of his solo: https://youtu.be/SKbqoFvr8RI

[John Hyland]

I don’t know if this is common or not I made a volume pedal with an adjustable back stop so there is a default volume position for general playing and non pedal use. That way when you land back on the pedal and back off you can be sure you have the right volume.

[Andrew Frost]

That sounds like a handy device John.

That said, you’d think that given the abundant complexity of these machines we play that learning how to put one’s foot back on a volume pedal would be a reasonably manageable skill to aquiire.

[Jerry Overstreet]

Yes, it just takes practice, rote, like anything else that we have to overcome playing pedal steel.

One nice thing about pedal steels is that you can customize the changes to fit your own personal playing style. In my case, my first pro steel was an Emmons p/p. It had the traditional boo wah pedal on pedal 4. I didn't know any better so that's where it's always been for me.

I put a whole tone raise, with a half stop, on string 4 on a knee lever and use pedal 8 for more important things for me. [One could also add string 8 but that's something I don't use a lot.]

Because the handful of heavy common pedal 8 changes are now on pedal 4, it unloads that 8th pedal for using several other multiple changes.

I wouldn't go so far as to recommend straying away from the traditional setups too much though as our heroes and pioneers have done most of the homework for the best overall setup for the most bang for the buck.

[Ian Rae]

I totally agree. The pioneers lead us in the right direction.