Transitioning From Fender 800 Pedal Steel Recommendation

[Eric Duarte]

Hi Everyone,

I'm a beginner and asking this for enlightenment, so apologies if I'm missing something. I have a Fender 800 I'm learning on, but it does not have knee levers and might be a bit of a fixer-upper. I'm looking for advice on what to buy next?

To my knowledge the closes store is Steel Guitars of North County which is a 14-hour round trip for me. California is a big state! I'm also going to be up in Seattle this summer and there's a shop there. I'm willing to make the trip or give them a call, but wanted to ask around here for what folks would recommend.

I have 3 questions to start:

1. Buy New or Used?
2. Go student model with 3 pedals and 4 KLs or buy higher-end than a student model?
3. Should I place an order for a show pro or something of that caliber and be set for a while? Maybe set for life!

Some of the steel players I love are playing an Emmons, so that's a sound I like. I am thinking about a GFI student model at the moment.. I also saw such a great array at the recent Nor Cal Steelers jam and my mind is spinning

Any advice appreciated. Thanks!

[Ron Pruter]

Hi Eric. Sounds like ,to an extent, money's not the issue. My opinion is go 3 peds and 5 levers. Don't go student. Go with an all pull guitar. With 3 raises and 2 or 3 lowers built into the changer. You'll want split screws in the changer. I'd go S/D. The wider stance gives you more stability and a wrist support. Make sure to kind of match your size. You can't lower a standard size guitar as easy as it is to raise one. Expect to pay $2.2kand up. Going to Jim's store is a good idea. I'm sure you will get many suggestions. Good luck. Have fun. RP

[Donny Hinson]

How long you been playin', Eric? And what is "...a bit of a fixer upper"?

You're probably assuming you can't play very much without levers. Can't say I blame you, because it's heartbreaking that we have so many steelers out there who stutter and get spastic if they don't have a bunch of knee levers on their guitar.

My suggestion is to get that axe working right, and play it a year! Then, maybe, go look for a replacement. Or add a couple of levers yourself, and go on playing.

[Tony Oresteen]

Eric, do you want an E9 or C6 setup?

I agree with Donny, get the 800 fixed and play it for awhile.

When you do get ready to buy, buy the best guitar you can afford as you will have it for a good long while, And keep the 800, I wish I had kept my first PSG.

Watch the classifieds here, lots of good guitars pop up all the time.

[Donny Hinson]

Lotta good music can be played with a simple axe! Here's Dave Zirbel playing an 8-string Fender 400 (like the one I have).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6FGtmjTc1Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YazDM7X1GMQ


And Here's Bob Carlucci, playing a Fender 800

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4lhan55GNA

[Ian Worley]

Hi Eric, nice to meet you at our little gathering the other day, I hope it was enjoyable for you and that you got a chance to chat with some of the different steelers there.

I tend to agree with Donny on this too, just play the Fender for a while to see how you take to it. My first PSG was an 800, I still have it. It took playing it a little while just to get to a point that I knew it was something I had a reasonable knack for and wanted to pursue and invest more time and $ into. The 800 is a bit of a tank, I did fairly early on cobble together some knee levers to raise and lower the Es, I just used some aluminum angle for the levers and mounting rail, I used cables from a couple of the extra pedals that I had disconnected, and some screen door rollers and other misc stuff from the hardware store to route the cables MacGyver-style. As Donny says, there's a lot of music in there with just the E raises/lowers and the ABC pedals. It was all a bit daunting to me at first, but by the time I knew I was ready to upgrade I had already absorbed enough knowledge to know what I wanted next and why in terms of a specific setup.

You said your 800 is a bit of a fixer-upper, are you having play-ability issues? I know these guitars well and I'd be happy to spend an hour or two to help you get the old girl setup properly if you happen to be back up this way sometime. Let me know. In the meantime just start pickin'. It's a long, slow journey, but it's a fun one

[Michael Sawyer]

I did fairly early on cobble together some knee levers to raise and lower the Es, I just used some aluminum angle for the levers and mounting rail, I used cables from a couple of the extra pedals that I had disconnected, and some screen door rollers and other misc stuff from the hardware store to route the cables MacGyver-style. As Donny says, there's a lot of music in there with just the E raises/lowers and the ABC pedals. It was all a bit daunting to me at first, but by the time I knew I was ready to upgrade I had already absorbed enough knowledge to know what I wanted next and why in terms of a specific setup.

Pretty much my story as well-
And you have Mr.Worley offering to help you -,something i sure could have used.

[Eric Duarte]

I sincerely appreciate all the insight, feedback, and messages from you all. Love this community. Ian, I’ll be messaging you soon. Thanks for the offer!

The Dave Z 800 videos on YouTube definitely helped me justify my impulsive purchase while it was in shipment. The videos showed me an example of what could be done on an 800 with no knee levers.

Just to clarify, I’m not planning to give up on the 800 or sell it. It’s a really cool instrument and I think I’m sentimentally attached to it now. Just a little daunting having something I’m not familiar with that’s old and unique.

I am just planning ahead to buy something new and versatile that I maybe don’t have to worry about too much or tinker with. Something well rounded with some features. Since there’s a lead time for a new one to be built or for something appropriate to show up on the classifieds - I felt like it would be good to start asking around and figure out the next move.

I’m a brand new beginner, been playing for like 8 weeks. Had my first lesson early March. I'm nowhere near growing out of this 800 anytime soon since I’m at the beginning of the journey and having fun. I’m learning grips and playing chords up and down the neck with slow backing tracks.

How did I get here? Well I had been thinking about getting into pedal steel and buying one for about a year. One night in February I got a wild hare, woke up (didn’t know about the forum yet), opened reverb, looked at some steels, and pulled the trigger on the 800 before I did any research lol. I have no regrets, but maybe I should’ve done some more due diligence? Now I’ve seen many people on the net and YouTube recommend buying a modern guitar with knee levers.

Currently the 800 is set up for E9. There are a couple issues, but maybe it comes with the vintage steel territory. The pedals are kinda finicky and my teacher had difficulty tuning them before our session. The tone and volume pots are very scratchy have two modes: off or 10. So it’s super bright. Kinda hurts your ears. Some strings move further than others when engaging a pedal. Like some of them are not as well connected or something. The 10th string seems to be the worst and most limited range of motion.

I’m not in a rush to buy a 2nd steel that’s more versatile since I have a LONG way to go learning... but I’m also not afraid to jump on something that will make me happy and provide a good experience in the long run.

It’s apparent I should go see and play some gear in person. I’ll make some trips this summer! What should my budget be?

I’ll post some pictures of my rig too.

[Eric Duarte]

I’ve cleaned it up since the unboxing day a couple of months ago.

[Eric Duarte]

[Zach Turner]

Hi Eric
It's cool to see another new pedal steeler near me; I've been playing since January. I am originally from Santa Cruz actually and now live on the south end of the bay.

Was the lesson you got in person around here?

Zach

[Bob Carlucci]

I sincerely appreciate all the insight, feedback, and messages from you all. Love this community. Ian, I’ll be messaging you soon. Thanks for the offer!

The Dave Z 800 videos on YouTube definitely helped me justify my impulsive purchase while
It was in shipment. The videos showed me an example of what could be done on an 800 with no knee levers.

Just to clarify, I’m not planning to give up on the 800 or sell it. It’s a really cool instrument and I think I’m sentimentally attached to it now. Just a little daunting having something I’m not familiar with that’s old and unique.

I am just planning ahead to buy something new and versatile that I maybe don’t have to worry about too much or tinker with. Something well rounded with some features. Since there’s a lead time for a new one to be built or for something appropriate to show up on the classifieds - I felt like it would be good to start asking around and figure out the next move.

I’m a brand new beginner, been playing for like 8 weeks. Had my first lesson early March. Im
Nowhere near growing out of this 800 anytime soon since I’m at the beginning of the journey and having fun. I’m learning grips and playing chords up and down the neck with slow backing tracks.

How did I get here? Well I had been thinking about getting into pedal steel and buying one for about a year. One night in February I got a wild hare, woke up (didn’t know about the forum yet), opened reverb, looked at some steels, and pulled the trigger on the 800 before I did any research lol. I have no regrets, but maybe I should’ve done some more due diligence? Now I’ve seen many people on the net and YouTube recommend buying a modern guitar with knee levers.

Currently the 800 is set up for E9. There are a couple issues, but maybe it comes with the vintage steel territory. The pedals are kinda finicky and my teacher had difficulty tuning them before our session. The tone and volume pots are very scratchy have two modes: off or 10. So it’s super bright. Kinda hurts your ears. Some strings move further than others when engaging a pedal. Like some of them are not as well connected or something. The 10th string seems to be the worst and most limited range of motion.

I’m not in a rush to buy a 2nd steel that’s more versatile since I have a LONG way to go learning,, but I’m also not afraid to jump on something that will make me happy and provide a good experience in the long run.

It’s apparent I should go see and play some gear in person. I’ll make some trips this summer! What should my budget be?

I’ll post some pictures of my rig too.

if you are having the type of issues you mentioned, your 800 needs to be cleaned, lubed and properly set up and adjusted.. Although they used cables and not rods, they were well built and well engineered guitars, that played well and stayed in tune,, I owned 3 different 800's and a 400.... they played soft, smooth and in tune... It needs to be set up properly... Not too many guys with a lot of experience on them these days.. Might want to contact Jim Palanscar at Steel Guitars North County... he can set that Fender up right, or if you want another guitar, would take the 800 in trade

[Dave Zirbel]

The Dave Z 800 videos on YouTube definitely helped me justify my impulsive purchase

Sorry if I misled you! Happy to help you get that thing playable….or take it off your hands! I’m a few hours north of you, or definitely take Ian up on the offer.

I think these guys are giving you good advice. Fender tone is hard to beat, IMHO!

Cheers

[Chris Templeton]

What to Buy?
1. Do you want to learn about the mechanics of pedal steel?
2. How much do you know about music?
3. Do you play other instruments?
4. Price range?




\

[Ian Worley]

The pics help a lot. That guitar has obviously had multiple knee lever installed and removed in the past. That is actually a blessing in one sense, as there is no need to be squeamish about drilling holes or screwing things into the underside. My 800 was really pristine and I wanted to keep it that way so I fabricated the knee lever setup to mount on a rail without adding any new holes to the guitar. In your case it would be much simpler to just mount a couple of knees right to the deck, probably just using existing screw holes for the most part, direct pulls so you wouldn't need any pulleys, just a simple reverser on the right-moving knee.

Either Dave or I can get you pointed in the right direction, give the changer a good look through and make sure everything is lubricated and working correctly, optimize the pedal timing. I'm happy to help you get her set up with a couple of knees too. Shoot me an email if you want to discuss.

[Eric Duarte]

LOL - Dave, you misled me in a good way by showing me that I bought something cool. That's all that matters, right? Just shot you an email by the way. Thanks for offering to help.

Ian - Thank you so much for everything. Looking forward to connecting with you in the near future. I feel much better about next steps and improving the current state of the instrument so I have something solid to learn on.

Chris - Thanks for the questions. Here are some answers:
1. Do you want to learn about the mechanics of pedal steel? - Yes. And I think I'm being forced to either way, which I think is going to really help in the long run.
2. How much do you know about music? - I am a huge music fan and am obsessed with live music since I was a kit, but I'm relatively inexperienced as a musician. I have about 2 years of 6-string acoustic and electric guitar lessons under my belt. I have never played live with a band, so that's one of my short-term goals and why I'm practicing as much as possible.
3. Do you play other instruments? - Electric & Acoustic 6-string.
4. Price range? - I would cap my budget at $5K-$6K for my next steel. Doesn't have to burn all that budget, but I am committed to buying quality gear and spending on something that will increase overall joy & morale in my life.

Bob - Ian is going to help me get things in order. I am extremely thankful for his offer to help. Sometime this summer I'll venture to Jim's shop. I'm getting busy with upcoming vacations, weddings, and other stuff planned. I would like to buy my next guitar from his shop if it works out that way.

Donny - So true. I also think any good player can pick up most instruments and sound great, so sometimes there is an illusion. I saw those videos before my Fender 800 arrived and got very stoked on the possibilities.. I am going to hold on to it and keep learning on it.

Tony - Thanks for the advice. Buying the best thing I can afford is normally how I operate with other purchases like tools and all my mountain biking or snowboarding gear. I'm going to stick with the 800 for now and plan to hold on to it even when I invest in a new instrument. I am playing E9, but I'm so new I don't fully understand the pros or cons of c6 or another setup.

Ron - Thanks for the advice.
[/quote]

[Tony Oresteen]

FWIW David Gilmore played a Fender 1000 on Darkside of the Moon.

"Breath" shows the how good the 1000 sounds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrojrDCI02k

He played it mostly as a lap steel and some time in the late 70's the under carriage was gutted. David still has his 1000.

[Mark Perrodin]

eric,
did that guitar come from tucson?

[J D Sauser]

Hi Everyone,

I'm a beginner and asking this for enlightenment, so apologies if I'm missing something. I have a Fender 800 I'm learning on, but it does not have knee levers and might be a bit of a fixer-upper. I'm looking for advice on what to buy next?

To my knowledge the closes store is Steel Guitars of North County which is a 14-hour round trip for me. California is a big state! I'm also going to be up in Seattle this summer and there's a shop there. I'm willing to make the trip or give them a call, but wanted to ask around here for what folks would recommend.

I have 3 questions to start:

1. Buy New or Used?
2. Go student model with 3 pedals and 4 KLs or buy higher-end than a student model?
3. Should I place an order for a show pro or something of that caliber and be set for a while? Maybe set for life!

Some of the steel players I love are playing an Emmons, so that's a sound I like. I am thinking about a GFI student model at the moment.. I also saw such a great array at the recent Nor Cal Steelers jam and my mind is spinning

Any advice appreciated. Thanks!

I don't think that anybody can give you a definitive answer or give you the answer you hope to get.

Owning a 1st generation Fender PSG, I believe most who play or played one of these Fender PSG's will agree that NO guitar before nor after will sound like these do.
So, IF you love your guitar's sound over all, you might be stuck with upgrading that one or find one that has been upgraded with quality mechanics.
They are mechanically not the most versatile guitars, and the cable mechanics are something most PSG builders definitely have moved away from for obvious reasons.
However, if it's "just" a few knee levers you yearn for, this HAS been done successfully by quite a good number of people throughout history.

If you prefer the "modern" sounds of PSGs after those Fenders, you can choose from any quality used PSG with all the "bells and whistles" you wish for or a new one of any of the current builders.


One thing I would say though, I do NOT think that after a Fender 800, which after all WAS a PRO guitar with a sound which shaped an good part of a past era of Country and Swing, you would want to go to a "Student" or "Entry Level" PSG... because you will find similar limitations and in most cases, much inferior tone. Student guitars are meant as "exploratory" guitars, to see if "steeling" is the right occupation for you . People who stick with it, then take the dive for a "Pro"-model and those who don't re-sell without facing a loss on a huge investment.


... J-D.

[Eric Duarte]

J-D - You’re right. I’ve been realizing and accepting that throughout reading all the replies on this thread. It’s provided great perspective. From the moment I unboxed, I plugged it in and tuned it to check basic function - I honestly was instantly hooked on the sound and the vibe. It wasn’t until I started plying it that I started thinking and wondering what the best route for me would be. For now it’s fixing up this guitar with help from great people on the forum.

[J D Sauser]

J-D - You’re right. I’ve been realizing and accepting that throughout reading all the replies on this thread. It’s provided great perspective. From the moment I unboxed, I plugged it in and tuned it to check basic function - I honestly was instantly hooked on the sound and the vibe. It wasn’t until I started plying it that I started thinking and wondering what the best route for me would be. For now it’s fixing up this guitar with help from great people on the forum.

I am sure you will find a good number of Fender PSG players here on the Forum who can shed insight and offer advice on how they've done their mods.
Your quitar is not one of the oldest and rarest, so you are pretty much free to do anything you want well done and have a true upgraded guitar with "that" sound.

Should make for an interesting project!... J-D.

[Andrew Goulet]

Check out the Fender Pedal Steel group page on Facebook too. Jim Sliff has written tuning and maintenance guides, and is a great resource both there and here for all things Fender.

I played a butchered-and-rebuilt Fender 1000 for most of the past decade with a working band. Once you learn how to set it up and maintain it, they can play really nicely.

[Eric Duarte]

Hi Andrew - Jim has been super helpful to me over the past couple of months. I've been emailing him random questions and he's been responding back. I would like to get involved in the fb group, but haven't had an fb account since 2014. I might have to create a new profile for the sole purpose of participating in that group. It's probably going to be worth it for me.

[Lee Rider]

Gene Parsons has played a Fender 800 since Leo gave him his first one back in the late '60's. He has a D9 copedent, 4 levers and 7 pedals. He gets a tone that I have not heard elsewhere. He can add knee levers and service and change the copedent if needed. He is about 5 hrs north of Santa Cruz on the Mendocino coast. You can contact him at stringbender.com.

[Paul Strojan]

I’ll second going up to see Gene Parsons.
If you don’t have a lap steel, I would get an eight string guitar to dip your toes in the world of C6. It is a whole different mindset of playing.