Has Anybody Seen a BL710 like this? (Info added)

[Jim Cooley]

I recently bought two BL710s. The pole pieces extend well below the bottom of the pickup. I mounted one in my Derby steel. This results are piercing, icepick highs. The Derby has a standard Emmons style mounting plate. I lowered the pickup as far as it will go. The strings were less than 1/8" from the pole pieces. No amount of EQ adjustment compensates for the piercing highs without completely muddying the tone, regardless of amp.

The pickup is 3/4" high from the base to the top. The pole pieces are 7/8" including the ends that extend below the base. Has anyone seen a BL710 like this? Any ideas?

[Jerry Roller]

All my 710s are 7/8” high so I would guess the Derby changer brackets are thicker than Emmons.

[Butch Pytko]

Well, how in the world do you mount a pickup like that with the poles sticking out that far--with spacers/washers or just let it rest on the protruding poles on the mounting plate? Then, the pickup height from the mounting plate would be higher than normal--decreasing the amount of height adjustment.

Also, if that's the normal way the pole pickups are made, with the poles sticking out that far, then I already know they won't fit on any of my guitars. I'll have to try and check on that before I buy any brand of pole pickups.

[Jack Stoner]

I have "real" Lawrence 710's on my Franklin. The pole pieces do not stick out.

FWIW, 3/16" distance from the strings is what is needed. Too close and it will get all highs and can even distort.

[Mitchell Smithey]

We got a batch at MSA last week that was the same way. Magnets are sticking out the bottom.

[Jim Cooley]

Jack Stoner - Are you saying you think these are knock-offs, fakes, that these BL710s are BS710s?

Mitchell - Will they fit the MSA mounting system like that or do they have to be modified?

[Douglas Schuch]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Bill Lawrence sold the rights to his 705 pickup (and thus, someone else builds and sells them) but kept the rights to the 710. If so, all 710's would be "real", but not all 705's would be built by Bill Lawrence or his company.

Bill passed away in 2013 (link to mention in "Gone Home" section: viewtopic.php?t=255048). So maybe the quality control problems are coming from people building them who are not as familiar with the methods?

Edit: Perhaps, Jack, you mean built when Bill L was still alive and running things? They are still built by his company/family.

[Jack Stoner]

I originally purchased the 710's direct from Bill Lawrence at his booth (room) at the ISGC in St Louis. I had original (version 1) pickups but had some tone problems with them. Bill changed some component in the version 2, I think the metal used in the pole pieces, and they swapped my pickups for the new version. That was probably around 1998/99.


In any case, all the 710s I've seen the pole pieces do not stick out the bottom.

[Mitchell Smithey]

These are not fakes they were ordered from the Wllde online store. We had to make some slightly thicker bases to make room for the magnets.

[Marco Schouten]

Mine looks very different.

[Donny Hinson]

Evidently, the manufacturer got a really good buy on the incorrect length magnets.

Look, common sense tells us that if people just stop buying them, they'll probably fix the issue.

But if people and builders go on buying and accepting them that way, they'll go right on doing what they're doing...and people will have to redesign/cobble things together.

I call that "the tail wagging the dog".

[Jerry Roller]

Jerry The overall height of a 710 is 7/8". The early ones used 7/8" magnets with a coil about 1/2" thick so the magnets extended thru the bottom plate of the coil and had a third plate on the bottom of the pickup with the magnets going thru that pottom plate and were flush with the bottom plate. Later 710s used 3/4" magnets in a conventional type bobbin then added a bottom mounting plate which finished out to be 7/8" thick. It appears they used 7/8" magnets in these pickups but used the later design that left the ends of the magnets extending past the base. This should work the same on an Emmons mounting design the same as the other types. I have 710s in my LeGrande II and have almost 1/4" clearance which is perfect. My guess is the Derby has less clearance in the pickup cavity than Emmons. Perhaps the changer pillar brackets are thicker and the magnets are hitting them. You probably need to sell these to an Emmons guitar player and go to a thinner pickup for the Derby. I would be very interested to know if anyone has 710s in a Derby.
Jerry

[Adam Aymor]

I have a Derby / Lawrence pickup with a similar issue. I purchased it with an aftermarket pickup (BL 705). When it is plugged in, you can hear all of the pedal / hardware movements through the amp. I put cardboard between the pickup and the mounting plate to try and separate the pickup from the chassis. This may have helped slightly but you can still hear pedal movement through the amp and not I can’t get the pickup lowered enough either. Is this pickup microphonic or just doesn’t play nice with this guitar? Any other solutions?

[Richard Sinkler]

Over the years, I have had 6 BL710s and none had the magnets sticking out the bottom. I wonder what the reasoning for them sticking out is.

[Jim Cooley]

Over the years, I have had 6 BL710s and none had the magnets sticking out the bottom. I wonder what the reasoning for them sticking out is.

It appears that when Wilde bought the rights from Bill Lawrence, they at some point started making these with the pole pieces extended out the bottom of the base. See Mitchell Smithey's replies, above.

[Ricky Davis]

There is basically 3 different BL710's made from start to current.
1. When Bill was Alive and invented and wound with his personal machine.
2. After Bill passed in 2013; the company continued on and made BL pickups in their own way at Bill Lawrence USA website.
3. Then Bill's Widowed Wife: "Becky Lawerence"; who originally built pickups with Bill; opened here new website currently:
https://www.wildepickups.com/
And Becky and her Daughter Shannon use Bill's original machine and makes them.
I've heard and played all 3 eras of this Pickup and when I first heard Becky's made BL710; it was the best sounding Pickup I've ever heard and She made me one and I replaced the Other best sounding pickup made by Harry Jackson that WAS in my "2nd LDG" made; with this narrow mount 710 and it is out of this world PERFECT.
This BL710 you have pictured is a "Wide Mount" and 3 wire> Becky uses 3 wire with Red, not Blue.
So "WHERE WAS THIS ONE MADE" is a clincher in "to me" the quality. Oh BTW; the one in Lloyd Green's LDG for easily 25 years is indeed original Bill Lawrence made it for Lloyd> 710 and you all have heard Lloyd's LDG.
Ricky

[Richard Sinkler]

Over the years, I have had 6 BL710s and none had the magnets sticking out the bottom. I wonder what the reasoning for them sticking out is.

It appears that when Wilde bought the rights from Bill Lawrence, they at some point started making these with the pole pieces extended out the bottom of the base. See Mitchell Smithey's replies, above.

2 of my 710s were from Wilde.

[Dennis Detweiler]

I bought a 712 for one of my MSA U-12 guitars. The highs were terribly thin and had a raspy sound on the two smallest strings. I lowered the pickup all the way down on the neck and results were the same. I re-installed the Telonics 427.

[Marco Schouten]

My XR-16 pickup that I bought from Wilde has the same, slightly extending magnets. It sounds great.

[Chuck Lemasters]

I have one of the 710 pickups with the pole pieces extending below the bottom plate. It is the best sounding pickup I have tried in my Carter.