Why Internet recording (can) suck

[Michael Douchette]

Gather round, boys and girls! Let me tell you a tale of why Internet recording sucks!

You see, they send you a track, and you dutifully work on it, doubling parts, like licks that are pushed and such to strengthen them, and generally do your excellent thing...

... then, in the final mix, the rest of the band goes in, and STRAIGHTENS THE PARTS OUT... and they DON'T CONTACT YOU... and let YOUR part go as you did it...

... so everyone that hears it says, "Man, that steel player REALLY SUCKS! I thought he used to play with Tammy Wynette, and does recording for a living! I thought he'd be really good! I don't want HIM on MY project!!"

And that, boys and girls, is why Internet recording sucks.

[Jack Stoner]

I had a guy that wanted me to add steel to some songs. He and I both have Sonar so we are compatible. I did one song, not knowing what he really wanted, just what I though, and it was OK for him but who knows what he was going to do with it so I opted out of doing any more.

I've done a lot of sessions both demo and "regular" for Jimmy Peppers (and he has some more new songs and wants to do another demo session and send them to a contact he has in Muscle Shoals)but they have been local and I was able to either do what Jimmy wanted or Jimmy would take what I suggested or did. Beside steel, I also did the bass on most of his sessions and did the master mixdown for all of them so I had most of the control. As Peppers has done some producing in Nashville (Mel Street for one) I was on an ego trip the first time Jimmy called me his producer and liked what I mixed.

[Earnest Bovine]

... then, in the final mix, the rest of the band goes in, and STRAIGHTENS THE PARTS OUT... and they DON'T CONTACT YOU...

What does that mean: "STRAIGHTENS THE PARTS OUT"? Is that something that happens in only Internet recording? Wouldn't the same thing happen if you had carried your gear to the producer's garage and played there?

Assuming that a "STRAIGHTENED" part is something that you don't like about the mix, the only solution I can see is to avoid working on projects that you don't mix.

[Earnest Bovine]

My problem with Internet recording is that I allow it to take more time than it would take to drive to some guy's garage and just do it.

[Michael Douchette]

By straightening the parts out, I meant removed the syncopated pushes that I had played along with; they changed the lick to be straighter, on the beat. So, my parts were now the only ones ahead. They did not contact me to redo after they changed it. They took my original pass and used it. Had we been together in a garage, this would have been avoided, because of the real time human interaction ("talking," as we used to call it... )

[Earnest Bovine]

..removed the syncopated pushes that I had played along with; .. Had we been together in a garage, this would have been avoided,

Wouldn't they have done the same thing after you went home? It looks like the problem is not internet recording, but rather what happens after you do your part. Am I missing something here?

[Michael Douchette]

Earnest... I'm going to try to make this as clear as I can. After I played to the arrangement of the song they sent me, and my track was therefore set in stone, they then CHANGED the arrangement, and my track no longer matched. Without contacting me, they just used the track I played to their previous arrangement. Since the whole band changed EXCEPT MY PARTS, I now sound like I didn't know what I was doing...

Capice?

[Ulric Utsi-Åhlin]

That IS annoying,and absolutely unprofessional...and,
the "new way" of recording(guy w/ a PC & a cheap
mike says he owns a "studio"),allowing all kinds of
fix-ups & digital play-by-numbers trickery is,to put it mildly,not ALWAYS a blessing.McUtsi

[Orville Johnson]

Sounds to me like the people you did this for don't know what they were doing. If your part sounds weird now, why didn't they just move it around and make it match the other stuff they fixed? Could they possibly think it sounds cool now against the other parts and like it this way and you're kind of fixed on what you did and the work you put in and can't hear it that way? Just a thought.

One of my personal rules about studio work is when I give them my part and they pay me, the part isn't mine anymore, it's theirs. I give it up. And I've had some of my stuff butchered and certainly poorly mixed but i lose no sleep over it. it usually turns out that the people who screw it up the most are vanity projects anyway that are only going to be heard by their moms and pals.

when I'm working for actual pros it doesn't usually turn out that way.

[Marc Jenkins]

Still sounds to me like this could happen whether the tracks were done in person or not.

[Michael Douchette]

Marc... only if the musicians are clueless.

[Bo Borland]

Marc... only if the musicians are clueless.

AHA! The lowest common denominator

[Richard Sevigny]

Michael,

Sounds like the only fix left is to ask to have your name taken off the credits.

[David Hartley]

Thats annoying, you obviously got sent the final mix back to you. I do many of these, and have been lucky, Its probably because I ask for vocal, and other lead parts to be added first, you then know what and where to play usually. It makes no difference, over the internet, at what point in the recording that we add our steel. I dont even like 'guide' vocals as these are mainly out of tune which is a 'put-off'. I tell you what annoys me as much, and that's when you get sent a track, vocal is on, and drums, bass, guitar etc..they ask you to play all the way through (so they can use the bits they like), and then you get it sent back with steel nearly all the way through it..As I say, asking for your session to be done after everyone else, works well. Best wishes Michael, David Hartley

[David Hartley]

Internet recording certainly doesn't 'suck', Its far better than carting gear, travelling around, and you're under NO pressure as to how long it takes. I done top of the world just a couple of weeks ago to a company/studio who hates doing country as they usually use a synthesizer for steel, they asked me and via the internet, I sent them a steel track back the same day and they were over the moon with it.. (I didn't have to tell them it took 1 take and was completed in less than 5 minutes). They paid well too.. So, I would rather the session be an internet one, personally, David

[Randy Reeves]

what is neede when internet recording is good communication. I always have feedback on what I did with someone's track and visa versa. we talk to one another; correcting any mis understandings or mis uses. fortunately I have been working with a very open group of people.

my biggest gripe about the internet is having to shrink a file down to fit through the mail or to upload onto a site. all my work gets compressed and the good stuff is gone.

[David Hartley]

File sizes are NO PROBS.. email me at mr.davidhartley@btinternet.com and I will tell you how all of my large logic files are passed around..

[Tony Prior]

well Michael, to me it sounds like the end user/producer sucks rather than the internet recording...

Seems to me you gave them tracks and they didn't know what to do with them or how to apply them !

t

[Bo Borland]

Mikey , it sounds like you need to choose your "xxxxx" employers more carefully.
Edited to agree with Mike lol

[Michael Douchette]

This was really an "employer."

[Mark van Allen]

Michael, I feel your pain... I do a lot of internet sessions and, other than the long upload times to FTP servers, it's pretty painless. Every once in a while though, somebody lines the tracks up wrong, steel being the snaky thing that it is I guess it's sometimes hard to figure out where it sits with the downbeat. But I've heard a couple of bizarre mixes, as far as placement and timing. Enough of 'em go right that I don't cry for too long.
Anybody with ideas on how to shorten upload times without file compression?

[Michael Douchette]

Mark, you can pay a fee on yousendit.com to get the faster upload... but I suppose it depends ultimately on your internet connection.

(An aside from a Comcast employee friend of mine; they don't even use their own service at their offices. They use something else. He can't tell me what it is.)

[Robby Springfield]

somebody lines the tracks up wrong

I always include a piece of the count from the original track on my track so there is always a reference point. I might be behind times but I don't think the payed service fron yousendit allows for faster uploads. It does allow you to upload folders as opposed to just a single file. Most of my clients want a 24 bit file so upload time for me is relevant to my internet connection speed and I use the payed service for the ability to load mutiple files in one folder.

Internet recording has turned out to be a good deal for me and has brought me a lot of work that I would not have if I had to travel miles and miles to get it.

[Mark van Allen]

Yup, in the best of worlds... I've gotten session files with just a minute of blank time in front, or starting right on the first downbeat, with 6 8 counts and no count at all...
I usually find a way to make it clear how to line my tracks back up when they import them. Just wish all the engineers would consider that part of the process!

But not too many complaints as it's becoming more and more of the workload. Viva electronica.

[Tony Prior]

I guess I would add, what are the expectations and what is the overall purpose of the session ? I just sent a wav track to a nice guy who sent me a raw track, we talked a bit about HIS expectations and I believe our worlds merged...

I would agree that some INT sessions can be a flame out but others can be really fun and end up well.

My goal is to do 10,000 Internet sessions then retire. I'm up to 13 I think...

t