audio clicks

DennyFast · Post by **DennyFast** » 23 Sep 2006 8:16 am

I need help to figure out why I keep getting audio clicks while recording vocals to PC! The PC is a Dell Dimenson 2400 series desktop and I'm running Windows XP home edition on it. There's plenty of harddisk space and a fast Processor. I'm using M-audio firewire audiophile external soundcard. I've tried different buffer settings...I'm using CEP 2.0 and Cubase 5.1.
I've checked all cables and they are fine. I'm using a AKG 414 mic so I know it's not the problem! I've talked to a recording tech and he couldn't figure it out either. I need help bad with this cause I'm right in the middle of a recording project and this audio click is holdimg me up! It happenes only when I'm recording vocals and it's a hit a miss thing. Got any idea's on how to solve this problem?

Michael Barone · Post by **Michael Barone** » 23 Sep 2006 9:07 am

One thing I can think of is the 48V phantom power circuit possibly relaying noise clicks that originate from the source line power. It could be RF interference, or some other type of interference.

Maybe try some Power line filtering. If you have that, try additional grounding an appropriate location. Also, maybe try a different line power circuit, or (if you really suspect the 48V line, and all else fails) an additional capacitor at the 48V out, close to the mic.

Or the 48V line has an intermittent connection somewhere, disregarding the cable itself.

Just some thoughts.
Maybe someone will chime in who really knows this problem.

Mike

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 23 Sep 2006 9:08 am

Maybe the internal sound card is causing this? There have been many reports of clicks/noise, etc on the Dell users fourm with various Dell models - especially the entry level systems such as the 2400.

Try disabling the Dell sound module (or sound card). Many Dell's have this option in the BIOS. Or make sure the M-Audio is set at the default mic/recording source in the Control Panel. There are options tabs for Sound and Voice, and recording source options within those panels.

How much memory (RAM) do you have? Many of the 2400's were sold with only 256Mb and that's really insufficient. Should have at least 512Mb for a Windows XP machine if you are going to do anything other than check e-mail.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 23 Sep 2006 9:14 am

I thought I had the solution but then you wrote that it ONLY happens on vocals... If that's the case then the problem has to be somewhere in your vocal signal chain.

Anyway,- in general I'd say there's two factors that causes this - not enough buffer size, or there are other processes, like a virus program, running in the background and interupting the recording.

Another thing,- have you set the PC to run processes "in background" (system tools - advanced). I only have a Norwegian XP on this PC, so I'm not sure of the exact names in English...

Steinar

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John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 23 Sep 2006 10:48 am

The only time I see this issue is with heat (is your computer vented well and in a cool spot?) or word clock problems...

DennyFast · Post by **DennyFast** » 24 Sep 2006 7:16 am

Steiner and John, the PC is in the next room, and the audio cables are thru the wall away from all ele. cables, so there's plenty of ventalation. No matter how many times I change the buffer settings, the clicks are still there. I'm beginning to think it's a clocking problem but I have no idea of what to do about it. There are no other cards in the pc except the PCI firewire card. Let me know if you need more info...Thanks for helping me! Denny

Nic du Toit · Post by **Nic du Toit** » 25 Sep 2006 3:33 am

Hi Denny,
I had this kind of problem as well.
It could be that you have other program(s)on your PC that allows you to transfer files directly to your CD burner. These programs have a 'driver' that regularly check between your hard-drive and CD-burner to see if there files que'ed-up for burning.....it's possible that it's this slight interruption that ends up leaving clicks on your track. I have since removed "Easy CD" and another like program from my system, and no more clicks ! Now I use 'Nero'.
This guessing game is difficult....much easier when one is in-front of your PC to check it out.

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Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 25 Sep 2006 4:01 am

Have you tried to turn off all your computer audio sounds? Go to control panel/Audio and Audio Devices/click on the Sounds tab then choose "no sounds" from the sound schemes menu.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 25 Sep 2006 6:23 am

It's possibly the A/D converter either in your EXTERNAL interface or internally on the sound card.

Sometimes if you input digital at 44.1 and the recording programme is set to 48khz the conflict and conversion during recording can cause this problem.
FWIW
Baz

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John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 26 Sep 2006 10:55 am

Denny, if the microphone signal is overdriving anything in the signal path, it can sometimes be heard as a click on a loud signal peak. Make sure that the input levels are set to prevent clipping on any device in the path.
The click can also occur on playback, although the recording was good.

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Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 26 Sep 2006 2:37 pm

wow, alot of different possiblities here, all very valid and good points. I will ad a couple more...1. is there usb involved? some dells have an intel chip set which can be problematic for certain usb applications. 2. is there a wireless network on this computer? I have heard this can also cause signal interuption.

I would havce said latency buffer but vocals only kills that idea.

DennyFast · Post by **DennyFast** » 27 Sep 2006 6:45 am

I've tried all of the above with no luck! I do use a USB external harddrive for just storing samples.I did a test vocal on another pc that is USB but went direct into the audio card. The clicks where stll there. I recorded vocals at a lower volume just to make sure clipping wasn't an issue and the clicks were still there!I don't know what else to do! Denny

Glenn Austin · Post by **Glenn Austin** » 27 Sep 2006 7:23 am

Does this only happen with a certain microphone.

Robby Springfield · Post by **Robby Springfield** » 27 Sep 2006 2:37 pm

I had a problem like this and I turned everything in my computer off as suggested by techs and still had the problem. It turned out to be Norton Go Back that was updating files in real time as I recorded. You might also check the Windows Restore and turn it off as these files work in the same manner.[This message was edited by Robby Springfield on 27 September 2006 at 03:40 PM.]

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 27 Sep 2006 3:58 pm

Its gotta be the mic if he's tried it on another pc and gets the same results..the mic or a large coincidence.

Michael Barone · Post by **Michael Barone** » 27 Sep 2006 5:48 pm

If you have a wireless computer network in the vicinity (like 802.11b), or someone using a cell phone nearby, try turning it off, then try recording your vocals.

A wild idea, like my first post, but you never know.

Mike

DennyFast · Post by **DennyFast** » 28 Sep 2006 5:42 am

Norton isn't running on the machine but I didn't turn off Windows restore! Right now as I type this, my wife is taking the pc to Pro Audio Solutions here in Nashville, they said it would be a easy fix! I'll let ya'all know how it turns out. Thanks for the help!
Denny

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 28 Sep 2006 6:05 am

Man! what a mystery. Yeah, by all means let us know what caused it.

DennyFast · Post by **DennyFast** » 1 Oct 2006 6:09 am

Well that didn't work!!!!!The tech said it might be the board so now I gotta find a board somewhere so I can see if that's the problem. Anyway, he said there was nothing wrong with the pc, that it was fine for recording so here I go again!!!! Denny

winston · Post by **winston** » 1 Oct 2006 12:14 pm

Phantom power will do strange things to mic cords. Have you tried another mic cord? winston may

Michael Barone · Post by **Michael Barone** » 1 Oct 2006 3:44 pm

Winston has a good idea there. I didn't think of it when I said this:

Or the 48V line has an intermittent connection somewhere, disregarding the cable itself.

I assumed that you exchanged the cable to eliminate it as a problem.

When I mentioned RF previously, I forgot to include another. If someone nearby is "keying up" a CB transmitter, it may cause a strange clicking interference if the transmitter is powerful enough. It only takes a little ground shield opening or exposed coil to pick up the transmitter switching on & off.

Just another thought. Good Luck.
Mike

DennyFast · Post by **DennyFast** » 3 Oct 2006 5:15 am

I got a new board, a MackieDFX-12 and it's a lot better quility than the Behringer but the audio clicks are still there! I've tried different mic's and sys restore is off but nothing helps. I've done everything that ya'all have suggested except the clocking issue. I can change it in m-audo, right now it's set at internal....how do you know where to check the clock setting in the PC?

Michael Barone · Post by **Michael Barone** » 3 Oct 2006 4:14 pm

Does a click happen when your home AC turns on, or when your refrigerator compressor turns on? I am only asking this if the click intervals are, for example, 20 minutes apart or so.

If it happens every song, have you tried a different sampling rate, just for the sake of investigation?

Edited to say that I do not know the answer to your question. I'm just guessing but I think the word clock source is a permanent structure in the program algorithm, or recording hardware, depending upon the user configuration. Hopefully someone who deals with this will chime in (and correct me if I'm wrong).

Mike[This message was edited by Michael Barone on 03 October 2006 at 05:39 PM.]

DennyFast · Post by **DennyFast** » 4 Oct 2006 5:51 am

Michael, I tested for AC and refrid. line noise and it's quite as a mouse!I had a tech tell me it was saliva clicks, witch were there but the audio clicks are totally diferent. I can overdub those clicks but the audio ones stay no matter what. I got a brand new mic cable lastnight and thought that might be the cause but when I tested this morning, the clicks were still there!I did a test just breathing into the mic to eliminate the idea it might be word phrasing, no luck, the clicks are still there so back to square one....Denny

Michael Barone · Post by **Michael Barone** » 4 Oct 2006 5:02 pm

Wow this is tough. Now, this is gonna sound crazy, but here goes. Try recording with another sound source that has high frequency components (like a synth), through the mic.

If the clicks go away, then nearby human body capacitance may be affecting the mic and assisting it in acting as an antenna, possibly picking up strong RF switching from somewhere (a neighbor?). The inherent grounding won’t matter, if a signal is strong enough.
Also, is there a negative ion generator nearby (for air purification), biasing the vocalist near the mic?

If you still get the clicks after this test, investigate into the possibility of an unknown incompatibility between the M-audio product and Win XP Home. I am only saying this since I had a bad experience once with an M-audio sound card. It had very bad S/N (probably a defective board, which is rare). Their tech support told me the problem was a DMA conflict (in Win2000). I surely can’t relate the two. They gave me a very long procedure, hours. I removed it, as time was valuable, and went back to the Audigy.

Did the tech check out your computer under identical conditions, with the M-audio ext card, mixer, mic? If so, your recording environment needs more shielding somewhere.

Considering everything you’ve done, it’s probably a long-shot, but past my previous comments I would almost be willing to bet that if you upgraded to XP Pro the problem would go away.

If you feel that I’m way off base, I’m just thinking out loud, trying to help, as crazy as my suggestions seem.

Mike