Counting off songs

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 25 Mar 2004 4:59 am

Now John, when you came to our gig last night I saw that 400 lb. blue hair you left with. The passenger side of your car was almost touching the ground. Kenny would have been proud........JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 25 Mar 2004 5:47 am

Well it is be kind to animals week in Chesapeake VA. You guys had the entire Virginia zoo at your gig.

I think that was one of your Ex'es, any way I dropped her off at your House, Did you have fun?

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 25 Mar 2004 6:56 am

In a good jazz band the person playing the theme will get those fingers snapping quietly and then go
1 2 or 1 2 3 4 1 2
A horn player might go 1 2 3 4, 1 . . . while rhythmically moving,
leaving time to get the horn and breath in mouth before starting.

But the key is to physically signify the tempo while getting everyones attention.
After it starts all are with the theme player.

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 25 Mar 2004 8:35 am

There's no such thing as a good jazz band!

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 25 Mar 2004 9:02 am

Can you count to 4...........

Kenny Dail · Post by **Kenny Dail** » 25 Mar 2004 9:40 am

Does it really matter how you count it? As long as you and the other members agree with the count, who is to say it is wrong? My propblem is I sometimes have trouble finding "1". I think the drummer sould click the tempo and the singer should do the actual count. In case of an instrumental, the player starting the music should do the counting.

Jerry and John, email me the name and address and Phone nbr of the "400lb purple hair" and remember, the bigger the cusion, the better the pushing.

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kd...and the beat goes on...

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 25 Mar 2004 10:18 am

KD
Just call Jerry's house, When I dropped her off there last night she said she was never going to leave him again, So I Imagine she is still there.

Ron
Jerry can't hear you, he is almost deaf, if I had a tone as bad as his last night, I would want to be deaf too

and he can't count either.

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 25 Mar 2004 10:44 am

I cain't count ta' four, that's why I only play waltzes.........

Back to the topic though, I like drummer counts if they're correct. The drummer in my band always likes to get things too fast so I count a lot of tunes off myself. We vary the count on different songs. On some country shuffles where there are two pickup notes we'll just count 1...2... then the instrument pickup will take it over. On some things that have a 1..2..3..4 count we'll use only the 3..4 to shorten it up. One of my favorite bands of all time back in the early 70's the drummer counted all songs off by voice with the 1..2..1.2.3.4 which worked out very well (except for waltzes). I remember in the late sixties in the Johnny McKnight band we had a bass player (Don Holloman) who'd count things off like this: boomachicka boomachicka 1.2.3.4 and it worked out great..........JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Perry Hansen · Post by **Perry Hansen** » 25 Mar 2004 12:17 pm

Since I'n the only lead in the band I just start of with a three beat pickup intro. seems to work most of the time. Gives the drummer a pretty good idea of the tempo. (I hope).

Leon Grizzard · Post by **Leon Grizzard** » 25 Mar 2004 2:04 pm

I was glad to see Jerry Hayes' comment about his drummer; I was going to make a similar remark, but thought maybe I was being unfair. But now that he has said it - a lot of drummers seem to want things to go too fast. I think the person singing the song should set the tempo, and they can count either 123412 or 12, which, accompanied with a little body english or eye contact, conveys when to come in.

Contest fiddlers often start with simply a double chuck, setting the tempo, and the next beat is 1 2 3 or 4, depending on the tune - it keeps the guitarists on their toes.

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 25 Mar 2004 2:09 pm

Back in the "old days" the touring bands played the same songs in the same order every gig There was no need for a count. The group I work with has several different song lists and different sets in different order are used each gig. Of course each member is furnished a set list and the drummer verbally and "stick clicks" the counts. This helps "hearing and mentally challenged" pickers like myself to keep up with what is happening on the bandstand. Jody.

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 25 Mar 2004 11:41 pm

One of my students told mne a story yesterday.
He's an "old pro" drummer, and he was called in on a session by and Indian Bhangra band to out in some electronic drum fills.
The actual count in would have been something that went to four in one ear and up to nine in the other.
He asked the producer for a count in for the fill, and when the time came, over the cans, at the highspeed call"One-two-three GO"
It took several takes to get it right.
Cheers
Dave

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 26 Mar 2004 6:04 am

Bandstand policy of one of my former bosses.....

"Set up, tune up, and get off, until time to kick-off!" ... no tuning loud enough to hear from off the bandstand... anyone caught practicing on the bandstand after they are through tuning will be fined the first time, and gone the second time! If you don't already know it, it's too late to learn it! ...and when I count-off, be ready!

www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 26 March 2004 at 06:15 AM.]

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 26 Mar 2004 7:12 am

My Idea of Professionalism also except for the counting. If you can't get it in a couple of pickup notes, you need to be somewhere else.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 26 Mar 2004 10:04 am

Everyone does it a little different. That's why a band, like a football team, needs a couple of "practice" runs before the game!

www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 26 March 2004 at 10:05 AM.]

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 26 Mar 2004 11:33 am

It's an old story but here goes....

Question: How do you tell when a drummer is knocking at your door?

Answer: It keeps speeding up and he doesn't know when to come in.

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 27 Mar 2004 5:10 am

Now, John if you can play the intro like the record where it seems to hang forever in the V chord and the the band doesn't go to the I too soon you got it made. I could never get some of my guys to do that for some reason.

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 27 Mar 2004 11:59 am

Craig
If you use numbers around the Norfolk, Va area, you open a whole new can of worms.

Tell them to go to a I and they will go to A everytime. II = B, III= C, etc . If I'm not mistaken Jerry Hayes and I are the only ones who use the Nashville Number System.

Throw Counting in and you have a mess....LOL[This message was edited by John Floyd on 27 March 2004 at 12:00 PM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 27 Mar 2004 4:02 pm

One of the easiest singers I ever worked with was Bobby Barnett. Unless it was an intro with a "hook", he started every song on the show strumming his guitar for 8 beats....it gave the band the key and the tempo and the audience thought it was showmanship!

...and the upside for the individual musicians was that they could be called unexpectably for a job without having to rehearse!

www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 28 March 2004 at 10:58 AM.]

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 27 Mar 2004 4:18 pm

Some time ago I caught James Brown's show at the Ottawa Blues Fest. Tightest show I've ever seen. Anyway...
There wasn't one tempo counted off all night, by James or anyone else. He would just point his finger at the band after an annoucement, and, WHAM, they were gone the millisecond his finger uncurled, in perfect synchronicity.
Of course there were other things about the evening which made you realize these guys had done this show a gazillion times. I've never been a major JB fan, but that's the smoothest show band I've ever seen.
-John

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www.ottawajazz.com [This message was edited by John Steele on 27 March 2004 at 04:18 PM.]

Jimmie Misenheimer · Post by **Jimmie Misenheimer** » 27 Mar 2004 5:41 pm

We picked up a leadman one night when ours was sick. When he counted something off that he was going to do, he counted, 1-2-1,2,3,4,5. Ain't seen him for along time. Whatever... Jimmie

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 27 Mar 2004 6:39 pm

From the theory I have learned..the way to count off would be 1 2 3 Pause for 1/8th rest
into the downbeat...on 4

1 2 3 dum "1/8th" rest 4. Maybe I'm wrong but thats the way I was taught and to think I have been doing it wrong all these years.

John Floyd writes........................
you need to be somewhere else. John thats were I have been all my life,,somewhere over the rainbow

Im back down now.

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 29 Mar 2004 5:59 am

You know
On Second thought I ain't too sure about Jerry knowing the Nashville Number System.

He tried to play $5 on a 7 one time.

He might not be too far off, I've heard it said its a Crap shoot everytime he picks.

[This message was edited by John Floyd on 29 March 2004 at 06:05 AM.]