The b&c Pedals....show us The Way

Steve Kritz · Post by **Steve Kritz** » 25 Feb 2002 7:20 pm

I can not say enough about the players that regularly contribute their thoughts and ideas to the SGF.You guys are to be commended.Your effort is really appreciated.Would love get some fresh ideas concerning the use of these two pedals.When,how,basic rules..You get the idea.Again,thanks.

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 25 Feb 2002 9:05 pm

A very hip Hal Rugg lick:
<pre>
G C
4--3~~3c--5c~~9L~~8c~~8--
5------------------------
6--3~~3b--5b~~9b~~8b~~8--
</pre>
-John

Moon in Alaska · Post by **Moon in Alaska** » 25 Feb 2002 9:15 pm

I don't know how basic you want -- so here goes really basics. If you consider the relative minor to a chord, like A minor is a relative to C, When you depress the B and C pedal in some given position, here's what you have.
Let's talk fret 8, Key of C no pedals.If you step on the B and C pedal there, you will have a D minor which is a relative of F, your 4 chord. picking a triad of strings 3 - 4 - 5, Of course, up 2 frets still using the B and C pedals is a E minor which is a relative
minor chord of G, your 5 chord in the key of C.
Here is a good exercise, on fret 8, key of C,
no pedals, pick pick strings 3 and 5, step on the A and B pedal, pick again, let off pedals
slide down 2 frets, and mute strings and then end back at the 8th fret, pick strings 4 and 6. Now this is a pretty good ending for some songs.
Now --to add the color of the relative minor sound, the same little run, but using a triad and the B and C pedals. Pick 3 - 4- 5 strings at the 8th fret, then engauge the B and C pedals,mute strings and move up to the 10th fret, pick strings 4 - 5 -6, slide back to home, the 8th fret, pick 4 - 5 - 6 and let off the pedals.
This run is a lot sweeter than the first one and has a much richer harmony.
Now --- I hope I haven't started too simple and have been telling you what you already know !!

When playing fill, these pedals are really good just to add a little color.
I use a knee to raise my 4th string from E to F#, and do most of the B and C pedal work with that knee along with the A and B pedal.
I seem to be able to get certain sounds with that arraignment that I can't get with the B and C pedal. I still have the B and C pedal for fast stuff. Boy, this got really longwinded !!! I hope you can use at least some of it !!

------------------
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Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 25 Feb 2002 9:42 pm

.[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 25 February 2002 at 09:46 PM.]

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 25 Feb 2002 9:48 pm

A brief synopsis of some B,C pedal theory, as it is often used. First of all, even though the B,C pedals create minor chords, they most often are used to create transition chords. A very common use is to transition from a I -> IV chord or V-> I chord. For example, in the key of C, when going from a C to an F, use them on frets 1,2,and 3, or 13,14,and 15 as follows. Accompanying chords are on line 1.

<pre>1____C______________F__________________
2______________________________________
3____3b___2b___1b___1__________________
4____3c___2c___1c___1__________________
5____3c___2c___1c___1__________________
6______________________________________
</pre>

When going from a G chord to a C, use them on frets 8,9, and 10, as follows.

<pre>1___G______________C___________________
2______________________________________
3___10b___9b___8b___8__________________
4___10c___9c___8c___8__________________
5___10c___9c___8c___8__________________
6______________________________________
</pre>

You can also stay on a C chord, and just do licks at frets 8,9,10, as follows

<pre>1___C_______________________________________
2___________________________________________
3___8____8b_____10b_______8b______8_________
4___8____8c_____10c_______8c______8_________
5_____8_____8c______10c______8c_____8_______
6___________________________________________
</pre>

Stay on an F chord

<pre>1____F_________________________________
2______________________________________
3___13__13b__15b__13c__13______________
4___13__13c__15c__13c__13______________
5___13__13c__15c__13c__13______________
6______________________________________
</pre>

and stay on a G chord

<pre>1____G_________________________________
2______________________________________
3___15__15b__17b__15c__15______________
4___15__15c__17c__15c__15______________
5___15__15c__17c__15c__15______________
6______________________________________</pre>

And combine positions together

<pre>1___C__________________________F____________
2___________________________________________
3___8____8b____15b_____13b_____13___________
4___8____8c____15c_____13c_____13___________
5_____8_____8c_____15c_____13c____13________
6___________________________________________</pre>

And finally, go through a I,IV,V (C,G,F) progression.

<pre>1__C_________F__________G_________________________________C__
2____________________________________________________________
3__8____8b___13b___13___10b_________10b_~_9b______8b______8__
4__8____8c___13c___13___10c_____10c_10c_~_9c_9c___8c__8c__8__
5____8_____8c___13c__13_____10b_10c__________9c_______8c_____
6___________________________10c______________________________
7____________________________________________________________
8____________________________________________________________
9____________________________________________________________
10___________________________________________________________</pre>

or

<pre>1__C______________F_______________G_____________________________C____
2____________________________________________________________________
3__10b___8b_~_8___15b___13b_~_13__15_15b_16b__17b_22b_22b_21b_20b__20
4__10c___8c_~_8___15c___13c_~_13__15_15c_16c__17c_22c_22c_21c_20c__20
5_____10c____________15c__________15_15c_16c__17c_22c_22c_21c_20c__20
6____________________________________________________________________
7____________________________________________________________________
8____________________________________________________________________
9____________________________________________________________________
10___________________________________________________________________</pre>

This is the basic framework for some common styles of using the B,C. There are many variations in picking patterns, of course. There are also other picking styles as well. Things that Ralph Mooney does with single note picking, Rock and Roll licks, and so forth, but I believe a lot of what you hear on commercial country recordings is along these lines.

Ricky0ne1 · Post by **Ricky0ne1** » 26 Feb 2002 12:55 am

Jeff, thanks... now I got something to do tomorrow...

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 26 Feb 2002 5:27 am

G Am Dm C
3__3 3b~~~~8b 8
4__3 3c~~~~8c 8
5__3 3a~~~~8a 8

Larry

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 26 Feb 2002 8:15 am

<pre>
Riff to play over a D7 chord (located 2 frets down of A+B for the played chord)

F#---------------------3--------------3~~~~~~-----3~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~--------
Eb---------------------3--------------3~~~~~~-----3~~3LL~~~~~~~~~~~~~--------
G#--/3B----3B~3-----------------3--------------------------------------------
E --/3C----3C~3-----------------3--------------------------------------------
B --/3C----3C~3-----3--------3-----------------3--------3~~~~~~~~~~~~--------
G#---------------------------------------------------------3B~~~~~~~~--------
F#---------------------------------------------------------------------------
E ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
D ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
B ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 . . 2 . . 3 . . 4 . . 1 . . 2 . . 3 . . 4 . .
</pre>

Bengt[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 26 February 2002 at 08:16 AM.]

Marc Friedland · Post by **Marc Friedland** » 26 Feb 2002 8:30 am

From a post a couple of years ago, is a copy of a chart I made of a basic (Do Re Mi) major scale using the B&C pedals. I tried to explain it as best I can. It's played in harmony and stays on the same two strings as it moves up & down the neck. Don't let its simplicity fool you, with a little embellishment there's plenty of cool sounding stuff to do with this. If beginners need more explanation, don't hesitate to send me an email. -- Marc

Major Scale in G

Strings 4 & 6
The root will be on the 4th string and the low 3rd harmony is on the 6th

You can play the exact same positions for the same scale but instead of picking the 4th & 6th strings, pick the 3rd & 4th instead.
Your root will still be on the 4th and now your 3rd harmony will now be an octave higher than it was using the 4th & 6th

When I say open position, it means no pedals or levers engaged
When I say B&C, it means to press both pedals at the same time before hitting the strings

Fret Position Notes (root)

3 OPEN G

3 B&C A

5 B&C B

8 OPEN C

10 OPEN D

10 B&C E

12 B&C F#

15 OPEN G

Moon in Alaska · Post by **Moon in Alaska** » 26 Feb 2002 2:41 pm

I think we all learn a heck of a lot with this kind of thread. At first it seems just the original poster is asking a question, but as a results --- the guys all jump in and then some of us OLD guys learns something !!! This forum is wonderful !!!

------------------
<< Moon Mullin in Alaska >>
==Carter S-10==
<< Old Fender-400 >>
== Evans FET 500 Custom LV ==
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/moon9999610/alaska.html" TARGET=_blank>
CLICK HERE FOR MOON'S NEW WEB SITE</A>

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 26 Feb 2002 3:51 pm

About Marc's post. Don't overlook that the positions for B+C come in pairs two frets apart.

Same thing happens if you harmonize strings 3&5 only now the open position come in pairs two frets apart and there is only 3 positions with pedals (inside one octave)
<pre>
Key = G
Pedals (A+B or B+C)strings 3&5
fret
3 open
3 B+C
5 B+C
8 open
10 open
10 B+C
13 open
15 open
</pre>

Bengt[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 26 February 2002 at 03:52 PM.]

Jim Whitaker · Post by **Jim Whitaker** » 26 Feb 2002 3:52 pm

Hey Moon (the old guys learn something) but whats great us new guys learn everything !!
Keep up the great work Forum. This is enough to keep be busy all night.

------------------
JIM
"73" MSA S10, "74" LTD 400, "55" Esquire, "63 Epiphone, "63" Precision,
"71" Jazz (The Bass)
REAL OLD STUFF

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 26 Feb 2002 5:42 pm

Great Thread! This is where the SGF shines!
Thanks to all posters.

Here's a simple intro/outro for "She Thinks I Still Care"
<pre>1___________________________________|
2___________________________________|
3___8_______________________________|
4___8____8_________8_______8________|
5________8____8____8C______8________|
6_____________8____8B______8________|
7___________________________________|
</pre>

Here's an ending in G
(D7 to G)
<pre>

1_______________________________________________|
2_______________________________________________|
3_____5B____4B____3B____________________________|
4_____5_____4_____3_______5____4____3______3____|
5_____5C____4C____3C______5C___4C___3C_____3____|
6_________________________5B___4B___3B_____3____|
7_______________________________________________|
</pre>

[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 26 February 2002 at 05:48 PM.]

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 27 Feb 2002 7:04 am

Hal Rugg "Tingle Becomes a Chill":

<pre>
2--------------------------11L--|
3--------------9--9B--11B^^11---|
4--4-----6--9--9--9C--11C^^11---|
5--4^4A--6--9-------------------|
6-------------------------------|

now the fun part:

2--13L-------11L------11L-------|
3--13B-------11B------11^11B^11-|
4-------13C------11C--11^11C^11-|
</pre>
Pure genius. Thanks to Tommy WHite for the clue (watch his Pedalhead video)

cheers,
Drew

------------------
www.newslinkassociates.com
www.drewhoward.com

[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 27 February 2002 at 01:19 PM.]

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 27 Feb 2002 7:25 am

test

------------------
www.newslinkassociates.com
www.drewhoward.com

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 27 Feb 2002 9:10 am

Shonuff good thread here.
it's gonna keep me busy cause it's just what i need !
Mercy Buckets...

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 27 Feb 2002 1:22 pm

Moved to 'Tablature'

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 27 Feb 2002 1:42 pm

...great topic, thanks guys!!! I need schooling on the B&C..

..b0b, the "pedal steel" area didn't mention that this was moved to tab, just said it was closed..maybe you could mention over there that it's been moved?

Steve Kritz · Post by **Steve Kritz** » 27 Feb 2002 5:11 pm

This is like sitting in a classroom taking a course.Sure do appreciate the responce to the thread.I believe some of the best pure steel sounds come from the B&C pedals,just hope I can learn to use them more.

David Norris · Post by **David Norris** » 27 Feb 2002 11:21 pm

I love this place

Jim Whitaker · Post by **Jim Whitaker** » 7 Mar 2002 12:35 pm

this is great & keeping me busy does anyone have anymore??

------------------
JIM
"73" MSA S10, "74" LTD 400, "55" Esquire, "63 Epiphone, "63" Precision,
"71" Jazz (The Bass)
REAL OLD STUFF

David Weaver · Post by **David Weaver** » 9 Mar 2002 10:08 pm

I think I have it tabbed right. It’s a familiar sound so play it slow at first and you will begin to hear the cadence and find the rhythm for it. Hold b-c down for two measures then up down up with the ab pedals. Not as hard as it might look.

1______________________________]_____________________________]
2______________________________]_____________________________]
3__12b_________12b~11b___10b___]_____________________________]
4__12c___12c___12c~11c___10c___]_12c__________12c~11c____10c_]
5________12c__________10c______]_12c_____12c__12c~11c____10c_]
6_____12b______________________]_________12b__________10b____]
7______________________________]_____12______________________]
8______________________________]_____________________________]
9______________________________]_____________________________]
10_____________________________]_____________________________]
! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

1____________________________]___________________]
2____________________________]___________________]
3____________________________]___________________]
4__10_________10~10__________]___10~~10~~~~~~~~~~]
5__10____10___10~10a_____10a_]___10a~10~~~~~~~~~~]
6________10______________10b_]___10b~10~~~~~~~~~~]
7____________________________]___________________]
8_____10_____________10______]___________________]
9____________________________]___________________]
10___________________________]___________________]
! ! ! ! ! !!!

Forget my attempt at beat marks...they jammed up![This message was edited by David Weaver on 09 March 2002 at 10:11 PM.][This message was edited by David Weaver on 10 March 2002 at 08:05 PM.]