Old bar-style MSA, how did they come together?

[Lane Gray]

More importantly, how do I take the changer apart?
The fourth string raise scissor is stuck, so the C pedal does nothing
Here's pics of the top and bottom
I'm just leery of "let's just start pulling screws and see what happens."

[Dennis Detweiler]

I removed and disassembled the changers on both of my MSA's. 1975 and 76. The 75 was so bad that two of the fingers were locked up with oil and dust. It's not difficult. Just take pictures as you go for backup. Judging from those greasy pictures, I'd go for it.

[Bobby D. Jones]

Take pictures and make drawings as you go. So when you start Reassembling.

I have removed MSA Classic changers, Classics not hard.
You got a monster on our hands. Looks like a project.
Looks like first thing would be remove the strings.
Next would be number and measure the positions of the return springs and mark them, To return to same position, And length.
Mark and remove all the pull rods attached to changer.

With all the black paint under the guitar may be a scratch and hunt for screws.

The 2 hex head screws on each side of the fingers on top, Then 3 hex in front of the fingers.
I wonder if on top, The 2 slotted screws in front of the pickup, May be holding the black bar on the front of changer under the guitar. From there on, Looks like flip coin or roll dice to see what you have to do next.

Good Luck on this project.

[Lane Gray]

Judging from those greasy pictures, I'd go for it.

It's stickier and more annoying than grease. It's nicotined up. Whoever Bud sold it (MSA said this guitar was built by and for Bud Carter, so that's coolness) to put it to extensive use in the honky-tonks. I just wish they'd left it a uni...

[Mike Preuss]

Although they don't look like it, those changers are very similar to a ZB. The raise/lower tuning socket cap screw stops against that big, block like changer housing. Once properly set up, they have great tuning stability, but are difficult to make copedent changes on.

The tricky part is pulling multiple strings. It is my opinion that this type of changer would benefit from a self-balancing yoke style rod attachment, like Kline.

If, when pulling two streets strings, both strings need to stop against the changer housing block. MSA used stiff springs attached to the bell cranks to accomplish this. I think a self balancing yoke would do the job better.

I rebuilt one just like it this last summer. I wish I used yokes in the pull train. It would have made the guitar waaaay better.. unfortunately I got burnt out and moved on to another project.

[Mike Preuss]

PXL_20250910_215949652.jpg

[Lane Gray]

You redid it, I see.

[Mike Preuss]

To take the changer apart remove the return springs and pull the finger out of its axle (it's kind of a knife edge axle, the fingers pull right out). The fingers brass bar fits in the slot of the aluminum round rod. Most of the friction occurs where the slotted round aluminum rod slides through changer housing. These rods will most likely need to be removed for cleaning. So you will have to unscrew them from the pull rods they are attached to. I think I read Jim Palenscar talking about this specific changer in the forum. They are a bit of an......ordeal.

[Mike Preuss]

I might add the most effective pulls are those closest to the cabinet and those closest to the pedals. The outer ones. The inner pulls tend to affect each other - pulling for a raise can pull the lower with it, because they are so close to one another. There's probably a way to fix that, but I never solved it.

[Colin Boutilier]

To take the changer apart remove the return springs and pull the finger out of its axle (it's kind of a knife edge axle, the fingers pull right out). The fingers brass bar fits in the slot of the aluminum round rod. Most of the friction occurs where the slotted round aluminum rod slides through changer housing. These rods will most likely need to be removed for cleaning. So you will have to unscrew them from the pull rods they are attached to. I think I read Jim Palenscar talking about this specific changer in the forum. They are a bit of an......ordeal.

The fingers, and top mounting plate remind me of the Carter Starter. Not a true knife edge design, but a partially enclosed round-axle design.

[Lane Gray]

I guess that's why Mitchell Smithey recommended repeated flushing with solvents rather than a disassembly?

He also said the design changed with almost every guitar in the pre-Micro years.

[Mike Preuss]

If you don't plan on changing the copedent, I would try to avoid disassembling the changer. My $0.02

[Lane Gray]

I do plan on rejiggering the copedent. I'm still going to try not to take it apart. Just flush it with Brakleen, or carburetor cleaner. Outdoors.