G# lower on Williams returning flat

[James P Mitchell]

Hey everyone, I've got a new-to-me Williams 700 which I'm really digging but having an issue with it.
I didn't notice it when I got it, but after changing strings, my low G# string is returning flat whenever I use the G# -> F# change. It gets "reset" when I hit the A pedal. I put some 3-in-oil on the nut but it didn't seem to help.
Any suggestions? Do I need to go to a lighter string? Or widen the roller slot? I'm wondering if it's getting bound up in the nut.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Mathew Peluso]

Did you happen to change from a plain to wound 6th or vice versa? Any significant change in string gauge?

[James P Mitchell]

I'm not sure what gauge was on there when I got it so I don't know if it was a big change.
Both were plain 3rds.

I'm remembering now that they were colored ball ends, so probably D'Addario. And I went to SIT strings.

[Mathew Peluso]

Just to clarify, were both 6th strings also plain?

[James P Mitchell]

Yes, both plain

[Jerry Overstreet]

Make sure the lower return spring is pulling the scissors all the way back to the stop plate. Feel under the endplate after you release the lower lever and see if you can pull the finger back.

[Donny Hinson]

As Jerry said....

Make sure the lowering finger returning firmly to the stop after you release the lower. (Push it with your finger to check.)

And here's some other things to check:

Is the string pulling straight at the keyhead? (Any pulling at a sideways angle may bind the roller.)

Is the new string the same guage as the old one? (A lighter string will need more travel to reach the same note.)

How much flat is the string returning? (Anything 3 or 4 cents flat, or less, should be ignored.)

Loosen the string, then lift it off the nut roller and check to assure that it's turning freely.


I recommend you buy a cheap one-inch micrometer ($15 or less) so you can accurately check guages of problematic strings, as errors in packaging do occasionally occur.

[James P Mitchell]

Okay, so the issue is indeed that the finger isn't always returning fully to the plate. When the string is returning flat, I can then push the finger with my finger and it jumps back to normal pitch. What is the solution here?

Donny, to answer your other questions:
Seems pretty straight at the keyhead, just a little bit of an angel.
Not sure about gauges. The changes are tuning just fine, it's just that return is flat (not always).
It's over 10 cents flat when this happens - way too much to be acceptable in a recording situation. I'm having to hit a quick B pedal to reset it in the middle of takes.

[Steve Mueller]

I recommend to call Bill Rudolph and describe the issue. He may recommend taking a large standard screwdriver and working it side to side in the slot where the sticking finger is located. Apply some sewing machine or similar type oil around the finger before and after this process. Then check to see if it returns to pitch. You may have to repeat this process over time to solve this issue completely. the guitar may have been dropped in transit causing this issue. I'm betting this will help. More tension on the return spring may also help.

[James P Mitchell]

Well, it's midnight here but I believe I figured it out.
I started messing with the "Changer Return Spring Adjuster Screw" and that just made it all kinds of worse.
So I restarted and reread the email I got from the previous owner. Somehow I had gotten the process of tuning the lower and the split wrong. I was tuning the split and the lower and vise versa. I'm not sure how that was even working, but apparently it was. I just redid everything from scratch and it seems to be returning totally fine now.

All is well, thank you for the help!

[Craig A Davidson]

Glad you got it. In the future just remember Bill is just a phone call away and he can usually tell you the problem and the fix right over the phone.

[Dave Sneed]

Also the Williams website has a pdf manual for their guitars. It has a section on making those adjustments.

[James P Mitchell]

Yeah the manual wasn’t very clear to me about the splits but I think I was just misunderstanding it.