Weird Copedent?

[Finn Lester-Niles]

I've been playing a Dekley U12 7x5 for the last few months. Best I can tell, this is the copedent it came with:

Screenshot 2025-06-23 145939.png

I've been told by an experienced player that this is a bizarre set up. I'm curious if others have seen this copedent before and/or have recommendations for alternate tunings or set ups. While I've enjoyed picking things up by ear, I'm hoping to hone in on something a little more standard so its easier to learn from tabs, videos, and other players.

Appreciate your thoughts!

[Bobby D. Jones]

The player you asked is right, It is a bizarre copendent.

The C/3rd pedal on standard E9th is, 4th string E to F#, 5th to C#. Gives you an Em at 10th fret, When in G at 10th fret A&B pedals down.

LKL 5th and 9th string B to C#, When it already has same change on P2/B pedal.

To go to B6th, You need a lever with 4-8 lower E to D# and 2nd string to C# to go to B6th tuning. (on some guitars there is a lock on this KL, For practice or to play swing music.
Take a look at Jeff Newman's or Mullen E9th/B6th tunings may help you understand the E9th/B6th tuning.
Good Luck on your steel journey, Happy Steelin.

[Dave Grafe]

Yow, that setup will fry perfectly good brain cells! I suggest you get in touch with Tommy Cass in central MA and have him set you up with a more useful U12 copedant. As Bobby says, a locking lever to hold the E's at D# would be helpful in order to maximize the B6 changes.

In the example below taken from a similar instrument RKL and LKR are often swapped relaive to this copedant, many of us prefer having the E>D# lower on LKR as it will never be used at the same time as the E>F raise on LKL. Lots of other minor tweaks are common but this is one basic beginning for a U12 E9/B6 setup. The main thing is to get a proper E9 system in place to begin the learning journey.

[Pat Chong]

It is indeed a different setup ...

But being a Dekley owner, I can partly understand why. The copedent Mr. Dave offered is normal, but oversteps Dekleys' abilities with as many as 5 raises on one string.

Specifically: the changer. The common Dekley E9 changer is built with only 2 raises and 2 lowers. The C6 changer has 3 raises and 2 lowers.

Finn, does your unit have one of these changers, or is it a different one, allowing for such a newer setup?

.......Pat

[Dave Grafe]

The copedent Mr. Dave offered is normal, but oversteps Dekleys' abilities with as many as 5 raises on one string.

Um, look again. The copedant I shared has no more than four total pulls per string, no strings have more than two lowers, and only strings 5 and 9 have more than 2 raises with 3 raises each as charted. These extra raises can be easily achieved with a well-placed barrel a la Emmons p/p or Sho-Bud rack-and barrel systems, or simply edited out on the B6 side without impacting the E9 setup. It was intended to demonstrate a common setup in contrast to what sounds to be rather goofy-wah. As a player and a teacher I strongly recommend new players begin with the Emmons E9 copedant, both because the theory is sound AND because it is as close to a standard as exists, thus easiest to gain instruction and advice in the early stages of the journey.

[Dennis Detweiler]

Goofy copedent. As Dave said, you only need two triple raises for a standard E9/B6 copedent. My MSA's are 2 up and 2 down, but I tune strings 5 and 9 (B to C#) underneath the guitar and within easy reach using two larger threaded nylon tuners that can be tuned with your fingers. You just need to thread two pull rods on each end. It's an easy cure.

[Finn Lester-Niles]

Finn, does your unit have one of these changers, or is it a different one, allowing for such a newer setup?

.......Pat

Where do I look/what do I need to do to answer this?

[Dave Grafe]

Look at the changer end where the tuning rods are adjusted. For each string the changer finger has a raise tab and a lower tab, with holes drilled for the rods to pass through. The upper (nearest the strings) tab is for raises, the lower tab activates lowers. The question is how many holes are in each tab, earlier Dekley guitars were originally built "two over two" i.e. two raise holes and two lower holes per string. Everything on the copedant chart I shared can be done with two over two with the exception of an additional raise each on strings 5 and 9, and there are ways to work around that limitation. If your changer is three over two, i.e. three raise holes over two lowers per string you are already golden.

[Finn Lester-Niles]

Thanks Dave! It looks like I'm working with 8 two-over-twos and 4 three-over-twos.

[Dave Grafe]

Thanks Dave! It looks like I'm working with 8 two-over-twos and 4 three-over-twos.

Wow, that's even more intriguing, someone has been busy under the hood. If you have 3-over-2 on strings 5+9 you can easily set up the "stock" U12 changes, if they're not there the fingers can also be moved. Do you know any experienced psg mechanics in your area? It would behoove you to have a complete reconditioning including morphing to a relatively standard copedant. Tommy Cass is in Baldwinsville MA and is as fine a steel technician as any, I am in the Hudson River Valley not far from Peekskill NY but I do get up to northerly parts to visit friends in Putney and Franklin VT. Dekleys are solid guitars, let's figure out how to get you off to a proper start behind it.

[Finn Lester-Niles]

The 3-over-2s are on strings 4, 5, 6, and 9, so I think we've got something to work with!

In terms of psg mechanics, I'm up in Burlington, VT and asking around to other local steel players if they have suggestions for local mechanics. If anyone knows anyone up this way, let me know!

If nothing works out locally, I'd be happy to commute a couple states over, or down to Putney, if you happen to be up anytime soon, Dave. Coincidentally, I went to high school in Putney so it's always nice to have an excuse to visit.

[Dave Grafe]

We'll get 'er done

[Pat Chong]

You're right, Dave, I did mis-count the raises, but what I said was still valid, (if his changer was a 2 × 2) and is why I was asking what changer he had on his guitar.

And what Dennis said is also correct, the limits can be worked around!

....Pat

[Dave Grafe]

Thanks Dave! It looks like I'm working with 8 two-over-twos and 4 three-over-twos.

[Andrew Frost]

Before throwing out the whole copedent just because it isn't 'standard', I'd suggest double checking your transcription of the set up onto paper.
For example, pedal 7 looks to be close to standard if it were written on the chart one slot above, raising B and G# a whole tone each. But as notated on your chart raising 6&7 both a major third (2 whole tones each) just looks like a typo.
In which case it brings into question whether the chart is an accurate depiction of what the guitar is actually set up to do.