First thoughts on my first 24 hours using Eb/B6 Universal

[Bill McCloskey]

Repost: I've been asked to post my original post, which I deleted. Sorry, I'm a bit tired today so took things a bit more personal than I should have. First, here is a picture of my new Mullen RP 12 string Universal

IMG_0094 3.jpeg

Here are my thoughts: I'll start off by saying it plays and sounds beautifully. I don't think it is going to replace my D10, but compliment it. I love the range and the deep textures you can get and as I make my way through the Barry Harris theory of guitar, I find every lays out beautifully and there are multiple places to play the 6th diminished scales with all of the chord voicings outlined in Harris' music theory. I will post them as I create them. I find the added string pulls make rocking the A & B pedals more difficult but that is irrelevant for playing Jazz. The range of voicings is just amazing. So ultimately, I can see the Universal becoming my "jazz" steel and the D10 reserved for "shi*t kicking" music.

As I said I'm just beginning to explore all the Barry Harris voicings and have found multiple places to play C6 diminished scale, C6minor diminished scale voices, all in drop 2 voicings with every note in the chord rotating through the bass, interspersed with the Dimished voicings. Here is an example of the C6MajorDimished scale voicings. As you can see I have multiple places to play the same voicing.


I'll post more for those interested as I create the spread sheets.

[Joe A. Roberts]

For the folks keeping score at home, in about the span of 1 year we have gone from:

- D10 copying Paul Franklin’s setup is the best thing ever

- Johnny Cox D13th with Day CBA is absolutely the best thing ever, no interest in ever owning a D10 ever again

- to S10 E9th Emmons ABC is the best thing ever, everything else (universal, 12 string, C6th neck, D10) was a waste of time

- Back to D10 but also E9/B6th is the best tuning for Jazz but pedals too stiff for E9th stuff

Very interested to see where this circuitous journey takes you next, Bill!

[Bill McCloskey]

Thanks for the reminder. I'll try and keep my thoughts to myself from now on.

[Joe A. Roberts]

That was not intended to be a slight. I enjoy and read all your posts when I see them.

You buy and sell a lot of steels and have tried more setups and steels than most folks. So in fact me and others might like to hear more from you when it comes to how your opinions evolved.
For instance, the idea of the D13th universal has always appealed to me but I imagine the string skipping is kind of daunting.
Is that why it is harder to play for you?…
I know you mapped out all the chords, does that come in to effect? Etc.

Speaking more as the non-pedal guy I tend to be, the string skipping thing also was one of my issues with the Alkire tuning.
Lot of harmonic potential but requires a lot of focus and sounds a little more stilted than normal tunings (at least with my hands)

[Greg Forsyth]

Hi Bill,
I read the posting about your endeavor into the world of the Universal 12 and think its way cool! I've also enjoyed your posts about the other styles of steel guitar that you have tried and your findings with each style. I find the info you write about each one has been very interesting and informative. In trying to learn to play steel guitars most all of us have tried different tunings, scale lengths, brands, string counts, spacing, and such in our search for something that fits us. You are one of the few who has embraced communicating your thoughts with the rest of us. Thanks for sharing and I hope you will continue.
Will you please repost the info from your original posting?

As far as Joe goes, I don't think his intent was to be mean or sarcastic . Maybe a wee bit thoughtless, but whom of can say we have never been thoughtless at times?

[Bill McCloskey]

I have "recreated" my original post. I didn't get much sleep last night and was feeling a bit tired. I apologize for deleting the original post. I certainly realize that I have explored a lot of different setups, guitars, tunings and copedents. Curiosity is one my weaknesses or strengths depending how you look at it and at 71 and just 3 years into pedal steel, I don't have the luxury of time. So if it seems like I'm moving through a lifetime of experiments in a short period of time, I am. Unfortunately, I don't have any other choice. I want to try it all. And the only way we can really do that with pedal steel is to buy, try, sell, rinse and repeat. There is no other way. i apologize if I seem overly enthusiastic as I experiment, but that is simply my nature.

[Greg Forsyth]

Thanks, NO need to be sorry.

[Joe A. Roberts]

I want to apologize to Bill for the tone of my online message, I perhaps wrote it too quickly but I meant it more in a jest ( mostly poking fun of the zeal expressed for some of the previous copedents and tunings ) and did not intend to sound mean-spirited, especially in that last sentence which I genuinely meant.

The shift away from D13th again was just genuinely so surprising, especially considering the amount of work you put into making charts, making thoughtful logical posts about its benefits that were convincing me to try it, and even getting in the list to order an MSA with a 2 year wait and price tag nearing 5 figures.

So a better way of saying what I intended is not to shame your enthusiasm or opinions but that to say these strong changes are jarring without the context or explanation/reflection to explain.

Keep posting, and don’t let random people on the internet (especially me ) get you down!

[Bill McCloskey]

I spent a long time with D13 and it has a lot of merits. However eventually I found the skipping of strings and modulating E changes Up two frets and C changes down two frets just became too confusing and more trouble than it was worth. It is just easier to play on a D10 with two necks. However once I realized that detuning my C6 neck down to B6, and how the E9th and B6 necks lined up, a lightbulb went off. It provided the advantage of D13 (everything lining up on a single fret) that suddenly E9/B6 tuning made complete sense. Going to Bb meant that I could play out of the F position of the C6 neck and have a beautiful Cmaj7 on the 8th fret along with my root C position on the E9th neck. Suddenly the idea of "one big tuning" made complete sense and eliminated the need to constantly skipping strings which is the biggest impediment to the D13 tuning. As far as MSA is concerned, I had to cancel my order since the original timeline of 17 months to 2 years now seems more like 3 plus years. I am hoping to get my deposit back.

[Dennis Detweiler]

I'm 76 and started on D10 (D9/C6). Then moved to S12 with a D13 tuning, but chromatics still on top with 5+5. This was before the U12 developed into a standard tuning. The 12 was still in early experimental stage. After Newman standardized the U12 (E9/B6) it all came together for me. This is all similar to Bill's journey. Currently, I'm using 7+6 and still doing some experimenting with kneelever changes. The E9th is still the money neck and is where the majority of jobs develop.

[Tim Toberer]

What may appear neurotic from the outside, actually makes a lot of sense. Most people have a hard enough time getting one pedal steel, but no one would think it was crazy if we were talking about standard guitars. I cycled through many guitars before I just got tired of looking for the perfect instrument and just try to practice more. Rarely does a new instrument make you a better player. In the end, we are the ones who have to play it so we should follow our intuition if something doesn't feel right. Sometimes you don't end up where you think you will!

[David Wisson]

Hi Bill wish I had swapped over sooner.The great thing about the Uni tuning is being able to use the E9th/ B6th together. It took me a while to stop looking at it as two tunings . Also When I first made mine I hadn't set the pulls up to well. But after I went through them all again I can play it with no shoes on. The action is so soft. It plays it's self. Love it so much I sold my Emmons PP. Dave