Amp woes

[David Jørgensen]

So I’ve run into some amp issues since I started playing with a loud group.
My main amp is a Benson Monarch, which I love and which sounds incredible played at apartment levels. At 22w it should work fine as the magnatone twilighter and ‘65 deluxe reverb I’ve been using at rehearsals have, but it doesn’t keep up. I play a Kline U12, so it goes deeeeeeeep

Now for the questions.

Would changing the speaker (celestion g12s rated at 30w) to, say, a Jupiter 12” LC or a JBL give me the increased volume and headroom I’m looking for?

Or, would I be better off getting an amp specifically for psg? I can get my hands on 70’s peavey deuce or an MX vtx for a reasonable price. Also, there’s a 73 session 400 around my parts, which temps me only for what I’ve read on here (and Sneaky!) about them.

What would the experienced sgf’er do in this situation?

- david

[Dan Beller-McKenna]

It sounds like weight is not an issue, so I'd go with the Session 400. It's a great steel amp and should be able to keep up with any band.

[Tim Whitlock]

22 watts will not give you the clean headroom you need for a loud band. Of the three options, the 400 is a proven winner for steel guitar. If you like the Fender sound, a Twin Reverb would be the choice.

[Brett Lanier]

Here’s another idea… Put a higher wattage speaker in the Benson and use it as a cab with a Quilter 202 or Milkman “the amp” when you need the headroom.

[Dave Grafe]

The Benson website says 15 watts only from that amp, that is likely why it's not as loud as the Deluxe Reverb. Yes a good JBL will increase clarity and volume per watt substantially, but the amp is designed for shredding six-string guitars not pure clean pedal steel power. To that end Benson's choice of JJ tubes also adds another level of harmonic distortion that would clean up a lot with a new set of TAD tubes.

[Dave Campbell]

get the session 400.

[Jon Jaffe]

I also play a Kline U12. I prefer the Nashville 400 because of its form factor over the Session 400, but either one are great steel amps. You are underpowered with the Benson amp you're trying to play with a full band. With your volume pedal at 20 to 30%, that's the volume you should play. The remainder is for sustain and expression.

[Bob Hoffnar]

A solution that retains the sound and feel of your amp without compromise is to get a load box that you plug the speaker output into. You take the IR output of the load box and send it to a powered monitor/speaker. You plug back into your speaker from the thru output of the load box.
You can set your amp to where it is perfect and control your stage volume with the powered speaker. You can mic the amp and send your perfect tone to the house.

I use a Suhr Reactive Load I.R. and a QSC CP 8. They do exactly what you want with no compromise in sound or feel.

I'll post details later after I've got some coffee in me.

[Bob Hoffnar]

One thing I would like to add is my system is expensive and complicated and the result of a mild case of a lifelong compulsive disorder when it comes to sounds.
From reading your post more directly I would suggest getting a loud amp you can afford and lift.
For throw and go loud gigs maybe a milkman half and half along with the other good suggestions on this thread. I would not recommend messing with your current amp. It won’t help enough for your situation and you might lose what you do like about it.

[Henry Schuellerman]

Dave- I've been there man. I play steel in a loud rock band and also a quieter singer/songwriter situation. What other amps do you already have? Any of them with more power / volume? It's surprising what good sounds you can get out of any decently loud amp with some EQ and a reverb pedal. Even bass amps sometimes.

Here's my thoughts... a speaker swap will probably help you out a little bit, but also will probably cost some money and compromise the current condition of your main Benson amp. If you're playing a lot of shows on PSG, you might as well spend the money on a dedicated steel amp (or even just a higher wattage amp for loud guitar gigs too).

If the Session 400 has the same volume as the 500 (I used to have an 82' Session 500) then it will be the loudest amp you have ever heard. Insane amount of volume. And that 70s Peavey tone & weight. Also can't go wrong with a Twin Reverb if you want the 60s tone. My main steel amp has been a 73' Pro Reverb, and while it gets a little hairy when we are really rocking out, it fits my needs (I'm usually on double duty).

Off topic but that's so cool you live in Denmark. I've visited once and saw some good music in Copenhagen. Are there a lot of other steel players there?

[David Jørgensen]

Thanks for the great advice, lots of good angles!

I found an old K120 locally and installed that in the Monarch. Sounds incredible at apartment levels, but the real test comes at next rehearsal. Annoyingly I traded a The Amp 100 for a silverface Dual Showman Reverb, that I then sold for rent money between tours. Both of those would have worked perfectly. Theres a lesson there somewhere, Im sure.

@bobhoffnar, I have a Tonex one with a half and half model that I love for headphone playing, and have had various other loadboxes - I need a simple and loud solution for this band though, as we will be gigging bars and bodegas with no sound reinforcement mostly.

@jonjaffe, what a great guitar the Kline is! Im inclined to think you may be right and the Benson wont cut it. If that is the case, Ill try and get my hands on the 400 for loud gigs

@davegrafe, I just retubed (for different reasons) last week with brand new TADs. Lets see if that with the K120 is ample!

@henryshhuellerman, Copenhagen is a nice place to live and visit for sure! There are a handful of very good players in town, but since the danish are somewhat less into country and countryesque music than our swedish and norwegian neighbours, the market isnt as big down here. On an unrelated note, the finnish have more metal bands per capita than any other country. Theres your factoid of the day:)

[Tony Oresteen]

Over the years I have found that if your amp isn't loud enough, first try adding a second speaker to move more air. I have an extension cab for my Fender DRRI that has a Weber 15" speaker in it. I also had my tech replace the output transformer with a Mercury Magnetics FDR-OX that has 4,8,&16 ohm taps that makes the amp more efficient.

https://www.mercurymagnetics.com/?s=FDR ... pe=product

I just finished a project that I added a 15" speaker to my Nashville 112. Is as loud as a Session 400 with 200 watts RMS? No. But it is plenty loud for what I need.

Good luck!