2nd gig with TT12 Quilter. Thoughts.

[Lynn Kasdorf]

I played last night and the night before with my new TT12 rig. TLDR- I have yet to find "my sound".

Last night was a very small, beloved bar in Baltimore. It seems like this amp really cuts through. Harmonics leap out like I have always wanted. However, there is something I am missing in the tone department.

I have tried the various positions of the voice switch, and I am not sure what I prefer. I know many like it in the "vint" position, and I played a lot with it there. The manual says that this provides the mid scoop- which is what I think I want. But I guess the mid cut is not where I set it on my Peavey- 800.

I have played a Peavey Nashville N112 for many years now, and with the Eminience Neo speaker I put in, and the Burr Brown op amps, I really like the tone. I guess it is unreasonable to expect the same sound from the Quilter.

I think the main missing element is the sweepable mid on the N112 (and all Peavey steel amps). It sounds like Furlong's Sesh 400 box may be exactly what I need, but it is hard for me to justify the cost, esp after the big layout of $$ on the Quilter.

I have some random EQ devices kicking around- I'll try a few and see if they help.

One interesting thing I discovered. I tried the XLR direct out and it worked pretty well, but- I plugged in a 10" Quilter cabinet that a friend loaned me- and this dropped the output lever significantly. Makes sense- that XLR is basically paralleled with the speaker(s). A 4ohm load will have lower voltage across it than 8 ohms.

[Lynn Kasdorf]

One might reasonably ask, if I like the Peavey so much, why buy the Quilter? Well, the big thing is the weight. And, I'm hoping for a revelation in tone. Maybe that will happen one day. I have not bought an amp in about a decade, and figured I would try what the cool kids are playing.

[Roger Crawford]

Two gigs isn’t enough time for the speaker to get broken in. Keep pushing it.

[Greg Cutshaw]

I use mine with the ToneX pedal which gives you a powerful parametric mid-shift-boost-cut much like the Peavey amps. I find this missing on the Quilter amp.

[Dave Grafe]

I have been transitioning to the Quilter from my trusty Webb, and I too have struggled with eq settings, in particular the mids frequency center. I love everything else about it, and am slowly finding my way, with a JBL K130 providing the highs the Eminence can't deliver. I am using the middle tone switch position as the "vintage mid scoop" does not sound at all like my old Vibroverb tone stack. This last Saturday night I was happy enough to mark the knobs with a grease pencil for easy recall...

[Lynn Kasdorf]

I have been transitioning to the Quilter from my trusty Webb, and I too have struggled with eq settings, in particular the mids frequency center. I love everything else about it, and am slowly finding my way, with a JBL K130 providing the highs the Eminence can't deliver. I am using the middle tone switch position as the "vintage mid scoop" does not sound at all like my old Vibroverb tone stack. This last Saturday night I was happy enough to mark the knobs with a grease pencil for easy recall...

Now, that is interesting. You have your gain maxxed and use your master for volume- basically set up for overdrive. But you bring in the limiter to un-overdrive it. I'm curious your reason for this approach rather than maxxing the master and using your gain for volume, with limiter off.
THANKS

[Jack Stoner]

My take on the TT12 - Best steel amp I've had since a Twin Reverb I had in the 70's.

My setup, bass 12 O'clock, Mid and treble two clicks left of 12 O'clock. No limiter and gain controls set conventially. I varied between FullQ and the "Fenderish" Vint. This with D-10 Franklin and two GFI's all with Lawrence 710 pickups. Standard guitar cords no George L's.

Edit/Added: This is the identical amp EQ setup I saw on Travis Toy's amp on a demo video for the amp several years ago that was on American Musical site.

[Dave Grafe]

Now, that is interesting. You have your gain maxxed and use your master for volume- basically set up for overdrive. But you bring in the limiter to un-overdrive it. I'm curious your reason for this approach rather than maxxing the master and using your gain for volume, with limiter off.
THANKS

Because it's how it was designed to sound the best? In this case "GAIN" is another word for sensitivity, and that's where great tone comes from. With a VP the signal is below the limiter threshold 90% of the time, so keeping the lid on the occasional 10% spike is not a negative.

Maxing the master means you are running a 200 watt amp when 30-60 watts is all that the venue requires, and as a result are keeping the preamp signal well below what is optimum for tone and response. Just like an audio mixer or recorder, you want the hottest preamp signal you can achieve without unwanted distortion to deliver big tone and low noise, then adjust the power amps and speaker's to the needs of the venue. Otherwise you end up changing tone settings for different preamp signal levels at every venue when all you needed was a volume adjustment .

[Lynn Kasdorf]

Now, that is interesting. You have your gain maxxed and use your master for volume- basically set up for overdrive. But you bring in the limiter to un-overdrive it. I'm curious your reason for this approach rather than maxxing the master and using your gain for volume, with limiter off.
THANKS

Because it's how it was designed to sound the best? In this case "GAIN" is another word for sensitivity, and that's where great tone comes from. With a VP the signal is below the limiter threshold 90% of the time, so keeping the lid on the occasional 10% spike is not a negative.

Maxing the master means you are running a 200 watt amp when 30-60 watts is all that the venue requires, and as a result are keeping the preamp signal well below what is optimum for tone and response. Just like an audio mixer or recorder, you want the hottest preamp signal you can achieve without unwanted distortion to deliver big tone and low noise, then adjust the power amps and speaker's to the needs of the venue. Otherwise you end up changing tone settings for different preamp signal levels at every venue when all you needed was a volume adjustment .

In general, that makes sense to me. But on most amps, maxxing the front end gain will usually give you an overdriven signal, when the volume pedal is loud. Not a bad thing if you are rocking out- I did that on a couple songs saturday night. I would sometimes do this on my Peavey when I wanted an overdiven sound.

With steel, I have always tried to get the cleanest possible tone- and that usually means having the master way up and front end gain lower. But the tone-block has the limiter knob, which changes this approach (apparently).

I shall try this out- thanks for the idea.

[Dave Grafe]

BTW I set the input GAIN not above 9 and certainly NOT full on, there's a big difference. This GAIN/LIMITER combo seems to match up well with my 500k passive volume pots and big single-coil pickups to deliver a ballsy clean sound without the overdrive "chirps" the Quilter is capable of.

Using the settings in the photo, if I find myself pushing into distortion with the VP I simply turn the master up a bit so that I can ease off the VP. Likewise if it's too hot turning the master down helps bring the VP up to its sweet spot.

[Chuck Lemasters]

Dave’s settings are similar to mine, other than I usually set the gain to seven…I used the Quilter from last August through December, eventually deciding I preferred my Nashville 112…took a big hit when I sold the Quilter, probably a mistake…it WAS easy to carry…I have a question, a bit off topic, but I have owned a couple of Class D amps, rated at 200 or 300 watts, and neither could compare in terms of sheer volume, knockdown power, whatever, to a Nashville 400. I would say the TT12 put out no more volume than the 80 watt Nashville 112…what’s the difference? Isn’t wattage wattage, regardless of how it is produced?

[Dave Grafe]

Isn’t wattage wattage, regardless of how it is produced?

Well sort of. Speaker impedance and efficiency have a lot to do with how much actual sound is produced per watt. A 4-ohm speaker will pull twice the wattage that an 8-ohm speaker draws but will not be twice as loud. A JBL, BW, or Altec speaker will be roughly twice as loud as an Eminence, Jensen, or Celestion of the same size, as well as delivering superior frequency response. Speaker cabinet design also affects frequency response and total SPL.

The other consideration is amplifier design. A cranked 85 watt Twin Reverb can sound as loud as a class D amp of much greater rated power because the tube amp goes into compression at input levels that would cause a digital amp to crap out completely.

[Bobby Hearn]

On my 202 with TT15 I’ve been turning master to 10 and controlling vol with gain, with bass and treble both at 10 and mids at about 2 or 3 and it sounds pretty good. Usually have switch on vintage setting. Before, I kept fighting with bass and treble settings but after maxing both out, it sounds a lot better to me.

[Dave Stagner]

Watts are watts, volume is volume... but loudness is not necessarily loudness!

Perceived loudness is very much a function of dynamic range, eq balance, and amp behavior in the face of both transients and sustained sounds.

When mixing records, you quickly learn that those crunchy guitars almost never cause distortion in downstream gain stages. Female vocals and violins, on the other hand, are brutal on downstream stages and often cause distortion. Likewise drums and acoustic guitars, which have very loud attack transients.

Tube guitar amps have really nice behavior for keeping those distortion-causing sounds. They distort, but it's pleasant-sounding low order harmonics, which are perceived as "loudness". Solid state often distorts in harsh-sounding ways, and even brief transients that aren't obviously "distorted" can cause problems with amp recovery and stability.

[Chuck Lemasters]

I understand that an 85 watt Twin can punch well above its wattage rating due to the manner in which distortion is measured verses how it is perceived by the player. However, there is a pretty big difference in the available volume of a 210 watt Nashville 400 through a Black Widow with its 98 or 99 spl and the 200 watt Class D Quilter through a TT12 at 100 spl. I found the same difference with a Milkman Half and Half with the 15 inch Telonics speaker. The 80 watt solid state Nashville 112 seemed comparable to the class D amps in perceived loudness. I remember seeing several posts from guys who had purchased Quilter Steelaire amps who thought perhaps there was a problem with their new amp, to which Pat Quilter replied, “Turn it up”. When I owned the Milkman, playing with a way-too-loud band, I had to run it near its max. Any of these amps would provide sufficient volume for my needs now, but I still wonder about Class D power vs. traditional solid state and tube power….or maybe it is my hearing…Huh? What did you say? Thirsty? No it’s only Tuesday….

[Lynn Kasdorf]

On my 202 with TT15 I’ve been turning master to 10 and controlling vol with gain, with bass and treble both at 10 and mids at about 2 or 3 and it sounds pretty good. Usually have switch on vintage setting. Before, I kept fighting with bass and treble settings but after maxing both out, it sounds a lot better to me.

Interesting- that is an extreme scoop. I tried it just now with my single coil Emmons- yikes! treble is like ice picks. But I am hearing the scoop, just not where I want it. I will try it with my gig steel, and Emmons with Telonics 409s.

[Bobby D. Jones]

The type of guitar cables you use can cause pick sharp sounds, I was using George L small cables when I went to a Tone Block 202. I ended up with a set of 240 D'Addario cables to get the sharp bite out of my TB 202.

Somewhere I seen an article, Some are soldering a component into the plug in end of small cables, To get away from the pick sharp sounds with a TB 202.

[Lynn Kasdorf]

The type of guitar cables you use can cause pick sharp sounds, I was using George L small cables when I went to a Tone Block 202. I ended up with a set of 240 D'Addario cables to get the sharp bite out of my TB 202.

Somewhere I seen an article, Some are soldering a component into the plug in end of small cables, To get away from the pick sharp sounds with a TB 202.

Adding a capacitor to a cable will attenuate high frequencies. I did see a 1/4" connector a while back that had a switch on it that would place small caps across the signal. You could switch in none, cap 1, cap 2, or cap 1&2.

Of course, I can simply dial back the treble a bit, or use the tone control on the Emmons, too.

[Bobby Hearn]

On my 202 with TT15 I’ve been turning master to 10 and controlling vol with gain, with bass and treble both at 10 and mids at about 2 or 3 and it sounds pretty good. Usually have switch on vintage setting. Before, I kept fighting with bass and treble settings but after maxing both out, it sounds a lot better to me.

Interesting- that is an extreme scoop. I tried it just now with my single coil Emmons- yikes! treble is like ice picks. But I am hearing the scoop, just not where I want it. I will try it with my gig steel, and Emmons with Telonics 409s.

Lynn, I failed to mention that this was through a Rains with George L e66. I haven’t tried it on my pp with single coils yet. Also I’m going to look and make sure I have switch set to vintage as that setting produces more treble.

[Dave Meis]

I was researching the 202 before I bought mine, and while I can’t remember where I read this, it indicated that in ‘vintage’ mode, the mid control remains active (flat at 5), while the bass and treble are passive. Can anyone confirm?

[Bobby Hearn]

Lynn, after checking, I have switch at full eq setting. Sorry for the confusion. I was running it on vintage before and forgot I had changed it.

[Doc Hall]

Lynn, I've had the same problems with the Quilter. Then again, I'm seldom pleased with any of my amp choices...so maybe it's just my skill level and hearing. The tt12 sounds good to me except for the middle strings. I cut my mids, but I find it hard to get the bite out of those strings. I've recently adjusted my tone to a more satisfactory level using my Freeloader. I have been able to find a sweet spot that runs between 5 and 8 on the Freeloader, depending on the acoustics of the building. I'm interested in trying Dave's settings on the gain and master to see how that plays out. I have been switching it to full eq for most situations and using standard cables.

[Ron Hogan]

I use mine with the ToneX pedal which gives you a powerful parametric mid-shift-boost-cut much like the Peavey amps. I find this missing on the Quilter amp.

Greg,
I just got a ToneX and I'm working my way through, slowly. I noticed they now have a MilkMan for steel and a Nashville 112.

Here's a great video, I FINALLY found that explains each knob/encoder setting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7gyMfZYo1o&t=25s

[Doc Hall]

I decided to drop the bucks for the Sesh 400 pedal. Glad I did. It changed my level of satisfaction with the TT12. It's tough to shell out the extra dough since the Quilter is expensive. However, I'm finally satisfied with the tonal response. I played in a small club last night and was satisfied for a change. I generally liked the TT12 in a medium to large venue with it miked up. Whenever I used it in small venues, I didn't like the direct feedback I heard coming from the amp. The Sesh 400 really enhanced the tone to my ears.

[George Seymour]

Played last night with the Quilter TT-12..Quaud Cortex into the 202 set to FRFR..
Made a capture of my Standel 82L...sounded very good to me.. nice light weight amp
for the tool box,