The Christmas Song on Non-Pedal Steel
Moderator: Brad Bechtel
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Dom Franco
- Posts: 2021
- Joined: 16 Oct 1998 12:01 am
- Location: Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Mark Eaton
- Posts: 6196
- Joined: 15 Apr 2005 12:01 am
- Location: Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Travis Brown
- Posts: 171
- Joined: 28 Nov 2020 6:14 pm
- Location: Florida, USA
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Travis Brown
- Posts: 171
- Joined: 28 Nov 2020 6:14 pm
- Location: Florida, USA
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Dom Franco
- Posts: 2021
- Joined: 16 Oct 1998 12:01 am
- Location: Beaverton, OR, 97007
F# D A# G E C# A F# E C# B G# EHi to Low: F# D A# G E C# A F# E C# B G# E
Wow, that would be quite a challenge for me to wrap my head around!
Middle strings are standard A6th
F# D A# G E C# A F# E C# B G# E
Low strings are E6th
F# D A# G E C# A F# E C# B G# E
Top strings are an Augmented 5th
F# D A# G E C# A F# E C# B G# E
Strings 3-6 are a Diminished 7th
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Rob Fenton
- Posts: 174
- Joined: 17 Jan 2006 1:01 am
- Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Sounds great Dom!
Really nice arrangement and playing.
How do you sweeten your tuning?
It would seem straight forward tuning to just intonation from the bottom up until you get to the G string. Do you tune the top few strings to equal temperament to make the diminished 7th chord work?
I've been spending a lot of time with the Leavitt tuning of late, of which 5 of the 6 strings appear in your tuning (as I'm sure you know), and have arrived at a sweetened compromise in intonation that provides a lot of pure intervals, but then requires some subtle slants when playing certain string combinations as the bottom 2 strings are pitched too close together. This method of sweetening wouldn't work with your setup as it would put a sour sounding patch in the middle of the tuning. I'm intrigued with how you work with the intonation problems presented by stacking minor thirds?
I enjoy your videos and am impressed with your ability to sing and play simultaneously!
Really nice arrangement and playing.
How do you sweeten your tuning?
It would seem straight forward tuning to just intonation from the bottom up until you get to the G string. Do you tune the top few strings to equal temperament to make the diminished 7th chord work?
I've been spending a lot of time with the Leavitt tuning of late, of which 5 of the 6 strings appear in your tuning (as I'm sure you know), and have arrived at a sweetened compromise in intonation that provides a lot of pure intervals, but then requires some subtle slants when playing certain string combinations as the bottom 2 strings are pitched too close together. This method of sweetening wouldn't work with your setup as it would put a sour sounding patch in the middle of the tuning. I'm intrigued with how you work with the intonation problems presented by stacking minor thirds?
I enjoy your videos and am impressed with your ability to sing and play simultaneously!
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Dom Franco
- Posts: 2021
- Joined: 16 Oct 1998 12:01 am
- Location: Beaverton, OR, 97007
Rob Fenton asked:
I am very old school when it comes to tuning. I played professionally in many bands, recorded many studio sessions etc. and all I ever used was a tuning fork to tune the 1st string and all the rest by ear.
When I played in bands with a keyboard (piano, rhodes, organ) I just tuned to them...
I guess I consider the steel guitar more like a vocal than a fretted or keyed instrument... I just move the bar until it sounds right to me. (I know it's not perfect but it's close)
Guitar and Pedal steel require some compromises (on a standard guitar I tune my 2nd string "B" a tad bit flat.
On my Shobud LDG I adjust my E chord open, then mash the pedals and tune the A chord... then repeat as needed (I hardly ever touch my stops, nylon end tuning nuts etc.)
Only rarely after changing strings...
Even if I use an electronic tuner, I always play some runs and chords and fine tune by ear.
I have never used or even considered sweetening my tuning.How do you sweeten your tuning?
I am very old school when it comes to tuning. I played professionally in many bands, recorded many studio sessions etc. and all I ever used was a tuning fork to tune the 1st string and all the rest by ear.
When I played in bands with a keyboard (piano, rhodes, organ) I just tuned to them...
I guess I consider the steel guitar more like a vocal than a fretted or keyed instrument... I just move the bar until it sounds right to me. (I know it's not perfect but it's close)
Guitar and Pedal steel require some compromises (on a standard guitar I tune my 2nd string "B" a tad bit flat.
On my Shobud LDG I adjust my E chord open, then mash the pedals and tune the A chord... then repeat as needed (I hardly ever touch my stops, nylon end tuning nuts etc.)
Only rarely after changing strings...
Even if I use an electronic tuner, I always play some runs and chords and fine tune by ear.
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Rob Fenton
- Posts: 174
- Joined: 17 Jan 2006 1:01 am
- Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Thanks for your reply Dom.
I guess I may have not used the right terminology with the word "sweetened". It's just how the equal temperament crowd choose to describe us folk who tune to just temperament.
I do mostly tune by ear though have programmed electronic tuners for my preferences for use in loud situations so I am aware of the number of cents I deviate from ET. There's the occasional choice to be made (for example, with a just temperament tuning that has both a 6 and a 9 in it. The 9 can't be both a P4th from the 5, and a P5th from the pure 6 at the same time), but some judicious adjustments with the bar can make it good enough.
For a bit I thought I'd met my match with the diminished 7th as each pure m3rd pushes out a little wider and by the time you have 4 notes the 2 outside notes are much wider apart than a pure Ma6th. Then I realized it really is just a matter of choice and what voicings one intends to use. On Leavitt it made sense to tune the bottom note sharp and do the occasional forward slant to flatten it when necessary.
I suppose I was asking about what choices you make around the dim7th chord in your tuning but you may just do it automatically and not even think of it. Your intonation sounds good to me!
Time to stop thinking about it and go arrange a Christmas tune myself. All the best!
I guess I may have not used the right terminology with the word "sweetened". It's just how the equal temperament crowd choose to describe us folk who tune to just temperament.
I do mostly tune by ear though have programmed electronic tuners for my preferences for use in loud situations so I am aware of the number of cents I deviate from ET. There's the occasional choice to be made (for example, with a just temperament tuning that has both a 6 and a 9 in it. The 9 can't be both a P4th from the 5, and a P5th from the pure 6 at the same time), but some judicious adjustments with the bar can make it good enough.
For a bit I thought I'd met my match with the diminished 7th as each pure m3rd pushes out a little wider and by the time you have 4 notes the 2 outside notes are much wider apart than a pure Ma6th. Then I realized it really is just a matter of choice and what voicings one intends to use. On Leavitt it made sense to tune the bottom note sharp and do the occasional forward slant to flatten it when necessary.
I suppose I was asking about what choices you make around the dim7th chord in your tuning but you may just do it automatically and not even think of it. Your intonation sounds good to me!
Time to stop thinking about it and go arrange a Christmas tune myself. All the best!
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Travis Brown
- Posts: 171
- Joined: 28 Nov 2020 6:14 pm
- Location: Florida, USA
Thanks for the breakdown, that certainly makes it more manageable.Dom Franco wrote:F# D A# G E C# A F# E C# B G# EHi to Low: F# D A# G E C# A F# E C# B G# E
Wow, that would be quite a challenge for me to wrap my head around!
Middle strings are standard A6th
F# D A# G E C# A F# E C# B G# E
Low strings are E6th
F# D A# G E C# A F# E C# B G# E
Top strings are an Augmented 5th
F# D A# G E C# A F# E C# B G# E
Strings 3-6 are a Diminished 7th
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Dom Franco
- Posts: 2021
- Joined: 16 Oct 1998 12:01 am
- Location: Beaverton, OR, 97007
BUMP for This Christmas Season I now play this in the key of C when I sing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkKHN_KIxlc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkKHN_KIxlc
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Dom Franco
- Posts: 2021
- Joined: 16 Oct 1998 12:01 am
- Location: Beaverton, OR, 97007