Which 6th is best overall

Chuck Trombley · Post by **Chuck Trombley** » 16 Jul 2001 6:35 pm

I feel certain this subject has been worked over many times before, but before my time on the Forum. Here's my question. A6, B6, E6 and C6. They all have the same intervals and chord possibilities. JB said in his excellent course it all began with A, then evolved to E, then C#m and finally C6, but I still don't know why. I have acquired my first Fender, a 52 Custom triple eight and am pondering how to set up the necks. Which is best and why? Will you help? Thanks. Chuck

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 16 Jul 2001 11:42 pm

C6 is somewhat standard and it's the "people's key" and all that - but A6 is a little ballsier on an 8 string - so either one of those on the first neck.On the second neck I would put an E13. I hung out with Joaquin for a few years and he kept talking about a C#m tuning that he used to play. And after talking to Murph's old friend Jerry Compton,who is the closest living player to Murph in my opinion,I realized Murph was refering to what everybody else calls an E13.
As far as the third neck - I dunno....I guess that's why I only have a double neck...I can't think of a third tuning which is fundamentally different enough from a C6/A6 or an E13 to be worth having,learning(and schlepping)
I know some of those hard core Hawaiian guys like Duke Ching w/their Quad Stringmasters and their B11th tunings,etc would beg to differ,but in my world,less is more.Tom Morrell has even eschewed the C6th altogether and now is getting it all from a non-pedal single 10 E13.Let's face it,the E13 has all the dominant intervals:1,3,5,6,7,9. - Scales lay out easy and if you analize the chords available using each note as the root plus all the chords and fragments available if you leave out the root,etc.,all the stuff anybody ever played on C6th is on there. I think Tom is onto something. -MJ-

Dana Duplan · Post by **Dana Duplan** » 17 Jul 2001 5:44 am

I agree 100% with what Michael said. Another couple of things to consider are what key you typically play in. I always had A6 and E13 on my double necks until I began playing with my new group. They do a lot of tunes in F,G, etc. that to me lay out a little better on the C6. I remember John Ely saying that he used Bb6 with AATW because of the keys. Also the guitar/amp setup you use could help decide. Some of the Fenders have a lot of high end and like heavier strings, whereas the Bigsby has a ton of bottom and can use the lighter gages. What I do on my triple neck is use A6, C6, and E13. That way I only have to learn two tunings and have the option of playing the 6th stuff in two different positions on the guitar, depending on the key of the song or the sound I'm after.
DD

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 17 Jul 2001 6:59 am

I use E6th/9th, closest neck; A6th/7th middle neck and B11th far neck. I only use the B11th for those nice big fat juicy chords when the opportunity presents itself. My "workhorse" is E6th(with an added 9th in the bass). Both the E and A are excellent for Hawaiian and standards IMHO. Certain individuals tend to "showboat" on quad necks which might be very impresive to the non-steel observer, but to anyone who has been around steel long enough, as mentioned above; "less is more". How true.
Best advice I can offer, pick two, (or three) tunings you feel comfortable with and STUDY them thoroughly. The more you mess around looking for that elusive perfect tuning, the less proficiency you will achieve. There's no such thing as a "perfect" tuning. Each has its' own limitations. Possibly this realization is the prime reason why the pedal guitar was invented.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 17 Jul 2001 7:27 am

All of you who are new non-pedal players ... George has just given you, for free, the best piece of advice you'll ever get. The search for the perfect tuning is a dead end. I couldn't think of a better way to put it than the way Keoki said it. Pick one or two and dig in. Like many new players, I wasted a lot of time trying many tunings. As soon as I narrowed things down I saw noticable improvement. As everyone said above, you can't go wrong with C6th & E13th. When I had a triple neck I also added B11th on the far neck.

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 17 Jul 2001 9:02 am

I've been playing my doubleneck Fender (A6 on the back neck, E13 on the front) with my new band and having an okay time with it. When I brought in my single neck Fender Deluxe 8, it just made so much more sense to me to use a single tuning and not go through the hassle of multiple necks.

I'd agree that knowing any one tuning is better than trying to learn them all.

------------------
Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

Paul Crawford · Post by **Paul Crawford** » 17 Jul 2001 9:40 am

Maybe my having started on pedal steel is affecting my choices, but I use E13th+9 on the front neck and C6th/A7th on the back neck. I'd love to also have an A6th for playing swing in particular, but with my 2 necks, I needed was a compromise.

I find the C based tuning a more comfortable voicing for a lot of slant work, and particularly for playing in G, where our front man sings a lot. With an A6th I was way up the neck past my personal comfort zone and could get a lot cleaner slants by moving everything down 3 frets. With 3 necks, I would no doubt have both.

Chuck Trombley · Post by **Chuck Trombley** » 17 Jul 2001 12:18 pm

My Forum Friends: Thanks for taking time to reply. I've already settled on E13. On my Sierra U12 pedal the basic E9 and Pedal A equal a C#M9 whereas the E13 is both tunings combined. Still getting acquainted with the wider grips but what a beautiful full chord sound.
I'll go with the A6 on the front neck and see what happens. This is a favorite tuning with Pedals A/B on the PSG.
Anyway, thank you gentlemen. Do you all realize what a blessing the Forum really is? Tell Bob thanks. Chuck

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 17 Jul 2001 12:21 pm

E
C
A
G
E
C
A
F

E
C
A
G
E
C#
C
A (same A as 10th string on PSG C6 neck 8th pedal engaged)

E
C#
B
G#
F#
E
D
B

These three tunings are what I would recommend. Why two closely aligned C6 tunings? They are NOT as close as one might think. That C and C# and the LOW LOW bass note in one case verses that F note in the other case, makes ALL the difference in the world.

Plus having seen the likes of Alan Apaka, Duke Ching and others switch from one neck to the other (Hawaiian show in Joliet last year) as quickly as we press pedals, it gives a mighty powerful set of tunings for you.

Why no A6? For many steelers it is just too bassy for most tastes. I know. I know. Some players love it. One classic example is Herb Remington. But many feel it is just too bassy and C6 is more preferred I believe for most players.

Finally, the comments about the perfect tuning on lap steel is very true with this addition to it. Same goes for pedal steel. NO one has yet to create the perfect PSG co-pedant. It is NOT out there. Close yes and one day, maybe. NOT yet.

God bless you in your quest,

carl

John Kavanagh · Post by **John Kavanagh** » 18 Jul 2001 8:23 am

I'd like to put in a word for G6 (GBdegbd'e'), which I use on the front neck of my D8 and also on my acoustic. The big plus for me was the tie-in to standard guitar and Dobro tunings, but I also find it more convenient than C6 for a lot of melodies.
I only miss the low notes when I'm playing by myself.

You could take it up a tone for a high A6 tuning. I notice on the "tunings" page that Mike Freid uses the A6 version on his D8. [This message was edited by John Kavanagh on 18 July 2001 at 09:47 AM.]

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 20 Jul 2001 6:30 pm

Chuck- I think that for a guitar player doubling on steel, the E6 would be easiest as the Orchestration type bar chords on guitar are tuned to E so the bar positions would still be the same. Less new stuff to learn. F 1st fret, G 3rd fret,etc, so if you have E on the first string of E6 tuning, it is the same as E first string on the guitar.......al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 20 July 2001 at 07:32 PM.]

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 20 Jul 2001 6:57 pm

I did a wedding last Saturday with my son. I used my National Dynamic 6 string. Tuned it E6...G#--- E--- C#--- B--- G#--- E.
This tuning put me on top of the sound big time. I have used C6th for years...but E6th
gets the job done better. It's brighter and really sings becuse it seperates you from your back-up much better.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 22 Jul 2001 3:54 pm

I don't know how many of you have heard Roy Play. He is very innovative, and his picking is so clean. Ask him to send you a sample.

I agree with him on E6 being brighter than the other 6th type tunings. If you like the bright sound of E9, you will like E6.....al