giving up on dynamic mics !!!

Quentin Hickey · Post by **Quentin Hickey** » 16 Nov 2014 3:53 pm

Hey guys. I am pulling my hair out with messing with my sm 57 and e609 to try and get some kind of descent to get some descent tone. These mics require a high playing volume to get anything coming in through the tracks. I also find that I just dont here the dynamics in the recording that I can get out of my amp. Truth is I was never happy with what I got out of these two mics.
I am thinking about buying a audio technica 2020 condensor mic which I am hoping will solve my problems. Does anyone else have the same issues? Have any of you put mic pre amps behind a dynamic mic and found good results or should I just cut my losses and buy the at2020. They are pretty reasonably priced at 115 plus tax.

Les Cargill · Post by **Les Cargill** » 16 Nov 2014 6:15 pm

Dynamic mics might need a little extra gain on the trim pot to get levels, but as far as *recording* goes, adding gain once it's recorded is no sin. I will track trying to get peaks at -20dB ( for 24 bit ) , then use a 2-track editor to raise the levels so all the tracks in a project are -25dB RMS* - this makes mixing a little easier. Even for a close-miced guitar amp, the room tone is louder than the digital noise floor by quite a bit.

*CoolEdit96/CoolEdit2000 have a thing where you highlight part of the waveform, then push a button that tells you what the level is. Then you raise or lower the amplitude based on that.

Condensers have more level because they have a little preamp in them already. But there's nothing wrong with using the trimpots on your mixer/interface/recorder to get levels.

FWIW, I really like the little Behringer ECM8000 condenser mics. They are omni so you can get 'em as close as you want to. Not expensive, either. They might look a bit funny, sorta like an anteater but they sound fine.

Rick Schacter · Post by **Rick Schacter** » 16 Nov 2014 9:32 pm

I wouldn't give up on dynamic mics.
An SM -57 is a very commonly used mic for guitar amps and snare drums.
Mics like SM-7's and RE-20's also sound great for vocals, IMO.

I just ordered one of these for my ribbon mics as well as dynamic mics:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CL2Cloud

A good condenser mic would be worth getting too if you don't already have one.
Those are great for acoustic instruments, overheads, room mics, voice....

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 17 Nov 2014 5:06 am

I agree get rid of them, all of them. Send them to me, I'll give you $1 each !

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 17 Nov 2014 7:17 am

SM-57 is just awesome! Keeping the amp volume a bit higher increases your signal to noise ratio and reduces the chance of unwanted ambient noise getting into the recording. I use condenser mics on my accoustic instruments and occasionally with amps as well the the SM-57 just sounds awesome. Are you are sure you have the USA made one and not one of he cheap copies that are flaoting around. I have mine fed into a Studio Projects pre-amp to get a bit more signal into my recorder. Maybe that would help you as well?

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 17 Nov 2014 9:40 am

I use SM57's In my home studio. I use them to record acoustic guitar, directly to my recording interface unit (currently a Roland Studio-Capture) and record using Sonar X3. I don't have any "noise" problems. I recently (two weeks ago) used an SM57 to record a harmonica, and direct to the recording interface unit.

When recording a guitar amp, I put the SM57 so its just slightly off center and almost touching the speaker grille. Again, direct to my recording interface unit.

Quentin Hickey · Post by **Quentin Hickey** » 17 Nov 2014 10:18 am

OK I am having some better luck with experimentation, A bit more volume out of my amp and The mic about 6 inches away so its picking up more lows and mids than just a pinchy sound I was getting before. I should add that I wasnt using any mic preamps, thats probably some if the problem too. I am going to try one out today with my setup

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 17 Nov 2014 11:18 am

I guess I should have noted, my Roland Studio-Capture has mic preamps built in.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 17 Nov 2014 11:43 am

My Yamaha AW-2400/1600 was fine with the SM-57 as a direct input. The Zoom R24 inputs had a lot of white noise with the SM-57 until I added the Studio Projects pre-amp. Now there is no detectable white noise and tons of gain. Your mic placement will have a huge affect on the tone you're recording. I have learned where to place my mics to get a tone similar to what I am hearing in the room in the near field.

Quentin Hickey · Post by **Quentin Hickey** » 17 Nov 2014 12:00 pm

Greg. Thats exactly what I am trying as well. Get the sweet tone that I am hearing in the room. I am a greeny when it comes to this stuff so please excuse my ignorant questions and comments. I just bought a used xenyx 1202fx mixer with 4 built in preamps. What a difference that made!! Now just a matter of playing with mic placement and levels like you say. Truthfully I didnt know about mic preamping until today. I have alot to learn

Tony. I wont be shipping you those mics just yet!

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 17 Nov 2014 12:55 pm

Thousands of famous recordings have been made with the SM-57. Definitely not the weak link in your setup. Good to hear you are making progress! It's very frustrating when your just getting started and you're not sure where to start looking.

The premap I use happens to be this one:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... mic-preamp

The tube section is not going ot give you any tube warmth but it will add some grit when needed. The whole preamp is dead quiet just like the ones costing a few thousand dollars!

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 18 Nov 2014 2:43 am

or for a few bucks more try one of these...

Line/Mic inputs, 4 band EQ, compressor, De-Esser and digital sampling...

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... nnel-strip

Quentin Hickey · Post by **Quentin Hickey** » 21 Nov 2014 7:02 am

When you guys record miced, do you play at stage volume or practice volume. I have been experimenting and found that this along with how far away you mic has a drastic affect on tone.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 21 Nov 2014 7:32 am

With the SM-57 I play at slightly above practice volume to guarantee that the SM-57's output is above the noise and that any ambient noise or amp hiss or hum is overcome.

Scott Appleton · Post by **Scott Appleton** » 3 Dec 2014 4:43 pm

I use a bunch of methods .. first track go direct through a pre ..2nd track close mike with 57 at edge of speaker and then the third track is off center of speaker and about 12' from amp usually a medium diameter mike .. if you can afford the 3 source method you can blend in for a real tight sound ..

Quentin Hickey · Post by **Quentin Hickey** » 3 Dec 2014 5:08 pm

Cool thanks Ill try that.

I do have 3 dynamic mics.
An sm 57
An e609
A no name brand

Which mics would you use for each track?

Rick Schacter · Post by **Rick Schacter** » 4 Dec 2014 2:48 pm

If you can find a mic that will give you a figure 8 pattern, you could try this stereo mic technique:

http://www.uaudio.com/blog/mid-side-mic-recording/

I've been playing with this technique lately and I like it a lot.
What's cool about it, is that you can vary the width of the stereo field at mix down if you need to.

Gary Newcomb · Post by **Gary Newcomb** » 29 Mar 2015 2:51 pm

Here's another vote for the SM-7!! Needs a little more gain than some other dynamics but good on just about everything.

Scott Duckworth · Post by **Scott Duckworth** » 3 Apr 2015 6:27 am

Experiment with placement. You may find a sweet spot that works better than everywhere else.

Dale Rottacker · Post by **Dale Rottacker** » 3 Apr 2015 6:42 am

Quinten, I donâ€™t know if this will help or not, but this is what Iâ€™ve been doing with and SM-57...this is from another post with the question I posed, about the difference with using a mic or going direct...

You can read exactly how I recorded, (I really new to this too), and listen to what I got by going to the link in the post.

Dale Rottacker wrote:Gentlemen thanks for all your experienced observations... Iâ€™m REALLY new to recording so Iâ€™ll digest this and Iâ€™m sure it will prove useful.

I know Iâ€™m doing this all wrong but this is the way Iâ€™ve been doing it...some of it is just the process of seeing if I can do it, but that said, I want to be able to do it better, even though itâ€™s mostly a personal thing and just something I want to be able to give to family and friends who keep asking for something... I know youâ€™ve all had this same experience.

So hereâ€™s how Iâ€™ve been setting up... Iâ€™ve been using Garageband hooked up to a PreSonus Firestudio Project... Iâ€™m coming out of a Profex ll, but only miking one amp, (one SM-57)... a Session 500 with an SM-57 pointed midway between outer edge and cone... Did I mention the amp is in a closet with me, and on its side so I can get it all the way in, (Room size issues)... the first time I tried recording like this I got quite a bit of pedal noise, so I put temper pedic type pillows between the pedals and the mic with the pillows being right up to and against the mic, and Iâ€™m also recording â€œWetâ€ because of the Profex and fear and lack of understanding about adding Eq and reverb and effects... Anyhow, this is what Iâ€™m ending up with, if you care to give a listen and tell me what you hear that Iâ€™m not even sure to listen for... and yes, I hear EVERY playing flaw I have, and they are many...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFIlyfi ... VHl6OkHZBa

Yesterday, for the first time I tried recording direct, and Iâ€™m not sure how I feel about it except that I know thereâ€™s something there, but canâ€™t quite put my finger on what Iâ€™m hearing... a couple of observations I think Iâ€™m hearing is that the overall volume seems more even, and I have to record much softer and yet think that occationally Iâ€™m still getting a little distortion... I havenâ€™t finished with the direct method yet but will let you know when I do, if I donâ€™t give up the idea first.

Thanks again for you help, Dale

Jay Fagerlie · Post by **Jay Fagerlie** » 5 Apr 2015 7:16 am

Change your pre amp!

Try one of these:

http://mil-media.com/HV-35P.html

(shameless plug)

AND it has a GREAT instrument in section!

All of your needs in one little box.

Michael Hibner · Post by **Michael Hibner** » 18 May 2015 6:42 am

The 57 in my experience is a fantastic amp mic. Place it at an 45 degree angle pointing at the speaker cone. This gives you the shrillest sound. Listen and if it's too shrill start moving it a little at a time sideways toward the out side edge of the speaker. The farther you get from the cone the darker and bassier it will sound. When you hit the sweet spot that gives you the sound you like you're done.
By the way, put it right up against your speaker cabinet. Placing it back, even 6 inches gives you some room sound. If you are like most of us home recorders you're not recording in a professionally treated room so, room sound is going to add boxiness to your recording.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 20 May 2015 8:40 am

An SM57 is a good mic, but it's even better if you have a large diaphragm condenser mic positioned for ambience. Otherwise, the SM57 sound is very one dimensional. I have had good luck with it, but sometimes it takes a little signal processing magic.

Dale Rottacker · Post by **Dale Rottacker** » 20 May 2015 9:20 am

Mike Neer wrote:An SM57 is a good mic, but it's even better if you have a large diaphragm condenser mic positioned for ambience. Otherwise, the SM57 sound is very one dimensional. I have had good luck with it, but sometimes it takes a little signal processing magic.

Mike, Iâ€™ve been listening to your recordings, which sound really good, beautiful tone, really well played and love the style... were these done with an SM-57 and large diaphragm condenser mic positioned for ambience?... the reason I ask is that Iâ€™m recording in a â€œNon-treatedâ€ room... would you still use a mic for ambience? and if not, what would some of the signal processing magic be that youâ€™d use? ... I wonâ€™t rewrite how Iâ€™m recording but earlier in this thread I explain and have a link to recorded samples with that method.

Michael Hibner · Post by **Michael Hibner** » 21 May 2015 7:42 pm

Greg Cutshaw wrote:Thousands of famous recordings have been made with the SM-57. Definitely not the weak link in your setup. Good to hear you are making progress! It's very frustrating when your just getting started and you're not sure where to start looking.

The premap I use happens to be this one:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... mic-preamp

The tube section is not going ot give you any tube warmth but it will add some grit when needed. The whole preamp is dead quiet just like the ones costing a few thousand dollars!

I have one of those too. It's a great pre for the money. It also does a fantastic job on bass guitar

The Steel Guitar Forum

giving up on dynamic mics !!!

giving up on dynamic mics !!!

mic'ing steel