moved to Pro Tools 8 from Sonar...

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 11 Dec 2010 6:43 am

Ok I am a Sonar user, two versions, I'm ok with it but the editing drives me nuts...

SOOooo last night I did a one song session in a small PT studio, I set up in the control room and as we were talking and tracking I was watching how easy it was to just do it all...the cuts, the pastes the drop in's, the punch-in's..the moving of stuff, the changing of midi notes..the whole thing...it all just made sense...

This morning I ordered PT , M Powered 8...I use an M Audio card so I am already M Powered..

MF, started at $249, instant $50 code savings then got another 10% by begging and crying..

$179 out the door...

PS..This was not my 1st exposure to PT's...I have been thinking about this for some time... It was time...

t

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 11 Dec 2010 7:33 am

does not matter what you think of the sound of it or how it works....you are now compatible with so much of the recording community that you will benefit from it! good luck

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 11 Dec 2010 8:28 am

Bill Hatcher wrote:does not matter what you think of the sound of it or how it works....you are now compatible with so much of the recording community that you will benefit from it! good luck

Absolutely Bill..

"and then there's that"!

Teddy Ray Bullard II · Post by **Teddy Ray Bullard II** » 14 Dec 2010 1:18 pm

Congrats! I personally couldn't be happier to be away from PT(I started using it around the time of the DIGI002 and used it all the way till PT 6), but it certainly has its share of fans.

the most important thing is how well it works for you, how it fits into your workflow.

Editing is the big reason I chose to leave it(well that and proprietary hardware nonsense). I do an equal amount of Acoustic/Classical/Orchestral work and PT pretty much sucks for that.

Moved over to Sequoia(and Samplitude for on location) and have never looked back. The 4 point crossfade editor, object based editing, ability to listen in multiple sample rates on the fly, etc are wonderful.

I do keep a little digi003 system for the occasional dummies that go "I heard PT is the best, do you have PT" and record on it.. but immediately , once they are gone, I dump it into my DAW of choice for mixing.

again, Congrats, it is a wonderful feeling to acquire things that make your life easier!!

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 14 Dec 2010 2:20 pm

Teddy Ray Bullard II wrote: it is a wonderful feeling to acquire things that make your life easier!!

well the jury is still out on that !

I'm still a big fan of dedicated workstations, I recently sold my Yamaha AW2816 and bought a Zoom R16 for a dual propose, use with the PC software and as a stand-alone, so far I really like it as a stand-alone. It does not have the feature set that a full stand-alone workstation would have but in it's simplicity, it is excellent, easy to use and fine results. Plus the file management is really what I was looking for.

with regard to Pro-Tools..I'll have to get back to you, I can say this though , if it is even a tad better than Sonar it will be a good move for me, I kinda like Sonar but got frustrated with some of the wacky edit nuances.

t

Teddy Ray Bullard II · Post by **Teddy Ray Bullard II** » 14 Dec 2010 7:59 pm

It certainly is one of the most intuitive, simple to get going APPs out there.

you might also try reaper(free to try) and a few others like Digi Performer to see if there is one that screams "this is the one"(happened to me with Sequoia)

These days they are pretty much all equals in terms of sound quality and great results can be had with any of them..so it really is all about finding the one that works best for you intuition wise. it is like shopping for a hammer, or a masonry trowel!

Tony Prior wrote:
Teddy Ray Bullard II wrote: it is a wonderful feeling to acquire things that make your life easier!!

well the jury is still out on that !

I'm still a big fan of dedicated workstations, I recently sold my Yamaha AW2816 and bought a Zoom R16 for a dual propose, use with the PC software and as a stand-alone, so far I really like it as a stand-alone. It does not have the feature set that a full stand-alone workstation would have but in it's simplicity, it is excellent, easy to use and fine results. Plus the file management is really what I was looking for.

with regard to Pro-Tools..I'll have to get back to you, I can say this though , if it is even a tad better than Sonar it will be a good move for me, I kinda like Sonar but got frustrated with some of the wacky edit nuances.

t

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 15 Dec 2010 3:04 am

I just upgraded to Sonar X1. The only thing I can say right now is that fortunately I still have Sonar 8.5.3 PE.

Bugs can be expected on new software, but there are too many with X1.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 15 Dec 2010 5:08 am

I'll add this just 'cause I can... we are in the middle of a 5 song demo, both my bandmate and I are running two versions of Sonar, our plan was to record drums off line from Sonar then compete the project on Sonar.....

Here's what we ended up doing..

We both have Zoom R16's and are doing almost all the tracking on these neat little devices...sending files back and fourth and only using Sonar for final mixing and for some slight V Vocal correction here and there..

The R16 has turned out to be so easy and versatile to use that it seemed crazy NOT to tack on this unit then transfer the files to the PC Platform.

t

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 15 Dec 2010 7:11 am

I've been using the Zoom R24 to record my tracks for a few weeks now. I port the R24 tracks via USB cable or USB thumb drive to my PC where I do all the editing and mastering on Reaper.

I paid $50 for Reaper a few years ago and so I'm covered for lifetime upgrades. I also use Reaper for all the midi editing of my drum tracks. It's a cinch to create and edit midi tracks by clicking, dragging, adjusting midi levels etc. The analog tracks are just as easy to cut and paste and manual or automatic level envelopes and compression are a breeze. I am using a Vst reverb plub in called Ambience (shareware) that easily duplicates the Lexicon reverbs. All of this is running (at 24 bits) on a 3 year old PC with 3GB of memory and a standard 120GB hard drive (5400? rpm). No glitches and no bugs. I can even render a single track through Ambience and save it to the source track to cut down on the number of vst's needed for the final mix. Reaper also offer MP3 support now.

It would be interesting to hear from a Pro Tools user who also has used Reaper a lot. I wonder if they are pretty close in capability and ease of use now?

Greg

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 15 Dec 2010 12:35 pm

Hey Greg, my pro-tools arrived today, I probably will not load it until the weekend but I have three good studio friends ( each local) who have the same version 8 and swear by it...two are very familiar with other platforms, Reaper, not sure...

The thing about the Pro-Tools and the Sonar packages is they also come loaded with excellent VST plug-ins..I am also using EZDrummer as well as all sorts of wav drum lops which i have acquired along the way...

we'll see about PT8...but I can speak to the Zoom R16( and 24)..great units ! I sold and don't miss my Yamaha AW2816 not even one bit !

When are you coming to Charlotte ?

t

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 15 Dec 2010 12:47 pm

Tony, my son who lives in Charlotte is visiting me for Christmas this year so it will be March before I get to Charlotte and all that seriously!!! fine shopping and food again.

From reading the forums for the past few hours it seems that Pro and Reaper and a host of others are all user friendly and handle midi and audio with ease. Pro has more options for mouse editing like vocal pitch and note editing. The Reaper vst plug ins vary from great to horrible. The compressor is great, the reverb is awful. The Freeware ambience vst sounds as good an any reverb in my studio however. I assume at some point I will have PC overload problems but so far with 20 tracks I haven't but then I am not running a lot of vst effects at the same time.

This stuff is fun after you get over the initial furstration!

Greg

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 15 Dec 2010 7:50 pm

Welcome to the dark side...

Seriously, like Mr. Hatcher said, it's a huge community that uses it...I fought it for years, but am pretty happy that I have it...it opens a lot of doors...

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 15 Dec 2010 9:28 pm

like a little kid I couldn't wait to load PT8..some initial issues with the PCI Interface but once I followed the instructions ( imagine that) it loaded perfect !.

I actually recorded a few seconds of music and played it back..so..looks like other than learning how to actually use it I am in business !

t

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 16 Dec 2010 3:04 am

I should have went with Pro Tools to start with instead of Sonar. But, I got a very good deal on the Sonar and the hardware I had, at the time, was not PT compatible. I now have a lot of hardware that I would have to dump, in order to use PT, even though the new version is compatible with my Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, so for now I'll stay with Sonar (and it's buggy X1).

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 16 Dec 2010 10:31 pm

I here ya jack, I also got a good deal on Sonar and luck would have it I purchased an Maudio PCI Interface Card which made me "M Powered". I suspected a year ago that PT was probably where I should be and after my last tracking adventure in a small local studio I decided to see whats up. MF had a deal on MPowered PT 8 so I just went ahead and did it. Once loaded, and after a short view of a YouTube tutorial I am just about at the same knowledge place I am at with Sonar, it is amazing how very similar they are overall with the difference is in the work surface and editing. My Sonar background made the move much easier for sure.

t

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 17 Dec 2010 3:02 am

Tony, I had a recent 30 day trial version of PT8 M Powered, as it worked with my M Audio Fastrack Ultra 8R interface unit. I played around with it, but with most of my equipment not compatible I didn't go any further with it.

I was looking at the PT9 thread on the gearslutz forum. Looks like it's as buggy as Sonar X1. One comment was it will take PT11 to get the bugs out.

A comment from a user on the Sonar forum about PT9 is an eye opener:

I seriously looked at PT 9 thinking that If I had to learn a new program (GUI) then I might see what PT9 offers.

The problem is that with the basic package of PT9 you are still miles away from the functionality of SONAR out of the box. If you want to get features that start to approach SONAR's feature set you have to add on the Complete Production toolkit which at $1995 makes PT9 for a supposed $599 a bit of a pie in the sky advertising. just take a close look at the features for $599 and you'll see that you get a truck load more features with SONAR X1

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 17 Dec 2010 12:57 pm

I wonder what functionality he is referring to ? PT-8, which I loaded has pretty much from what I can see all of what Sonar 8 has. My biggest issue was editing and I can tell you right now , hands down, PT editing is a breeze compared to Sonar so I don't know what he may be talking about. After only two days I am doing almost exactly the same things with PT8 that I did with Sonar 7 and 8..Plus the screen is not cluttered...Sonar 7 to me has a better work surface than S8, Sonar 8 was just too busy , too much stuff going on...I like S7, just don't like the editing...

Plug-ins, effects ? tons come with PT, out board VST's that I already have also run under PT.. Ok Sonar does come with multiple VST's, even with Sonar 7, most of which I never use as they are redundant... How many of the same reverbs, delays and compressors do we need ? PT 8 comes with about 70 add-ons, so it says...I always used the same ones in my Sonar package so maybe that's what he is referring to, but that's not functionality.

Now Sonar 8 does come with V Vocal, PT8 has a sort of included pitch program and there is an additional one you can buy. The included pitch program works by region rather than the whole track, the one you buy does the whole track like the Antares rack mount...is this an issue ? Not sure, I don't see a problem correcting by region anyway.

Maybe the guy is just a Sonar freak and doesn't want to admit what he already knows !

Maybe functionality is the wrong term.

I have 3 friends with local studios running PT 8...they are not complaining...

Can't speak to PT9...but I'm sure it has bugs..that would be a no brainer !

t

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 21 Dec 2010 10:56 pm

I get a kick out of everyone trying to figure out which format is the best including myself

If I've said this once I've said it 20 times

The best recording application is the one that you like the best

All professional platforms capable at recording 24 bit digital audio will sound mkiller as ,long as your computerwill run them.

As far as PT VS's Sonar goes I am pretty sure PT is somewhat like Sonar if you don't like the way the screen looks or any other part of it there are 1000's of ways to modify it and have it come up every single time you open it.

I am from the old school of recording and all I want on my recording/tracking screen is the input's and output's and the tracks that I've already recorded so I always know what I am looking at and I always know what input I am coming from. Then I like to have other screens for everything else available for a quick pull up. So in my Sonar setup I probably have 25 tabs at the bottom of my main recording screen and when I need to access another part of the recording process I just hit a different tab and on and on and all the rest of the clutter stays hidden. Now if I had 2 26" screens side by each having 52 inches of horizontal screen real estate then it would be a different choice but I'm still using a single 22" 16x9 high def screen and that gives me a lot of space for just one screen at a time.

I am also sure that PT has the same capabilities in one way or the other. I can promise you that if you know what you are doing you can get the same quality of recordings from each format. There are at least 15 very big contenders in this race and I love to hear how each one is the best and you know what?? To each of us users our platform really is the best for us :-)but every once in a while one of us will jump for the other rope and either love it or go straight back to our original platform.

Heck I have heard some killer master quality recordings from 8, 16 and 24 track hardware recorders such as Roland, Yamaha, Zoom and even all of the others I didn't mention.

I say let's discuss each of our platforms and be honest and tell each other what we feel are the strong points and weak points are of our chosen platform.

I'll tell you the one major weakness of Sonar that I don't like and that is the weakness of the Audio and Midi editing functions of Sonar 8.5. Now don't get me wrong Sonar has came a very long way in both areas but I still use external applications to do extensive editing of both audio and midi.

As far as the audio editing most simple things can stay in Sonar but when it comes to the Micro editing I prefer 2 or 3 other apps depending on what I want to do but all of my midi editing will always go to my Mac using Digital Performer it had the best midi editing in my opinion over 15 to 17 years ago long before they changed it from Performer to Digital Performer. But I also like Cubase for midi editing on the PC.

I'll stop here and just agree that we all like what we like and it's pretty hard to make us believe that any other platforms other than the one we use is better

Just my 2 cents

Big Bob

Big Bob

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 22 Dec 2010 3:56 am

I only have 1 cent left...

I like Sonar, I like 7 better than 8..I don't like editing on either but both are very easy to record tracks either instruments or midi...but I don't like the editing...Maybe I never understood it, to me some of the editing paths just don't make any sense to me...

I love stand-alone workstations..I still have 3 ! An old Boss BR-8, an old Tascam Cassette workstation and the New Zoom R16 which I think is just plain awesome for the money ! I did just sell my Yamaha AW2816 workhorse, excellent unit but dated..no way to manage files. The Zoom R16 is the leader of the pack when it comes to file management, plus it records 16 tracks, 8 at a time and has typical on board effects and such...all for just over $300 ! ( I paid $335 new ) It records each track as a separate 16 or 24 bit wav file and each track can be independently sent to another platform, any platform that accepts wav files, which basically is every one of them now.

Pro Tools 8..as stated earlier, I am a fan, a new fan...to my eyes and brain it is clear, uncluttered and makes sense. I will use this as the primary platform of the few that I have. New projects will start life on Pro-Tools 8. Whoever invented the "smart tool" kicked a lot of butts with that neat editing tool function.

that's it, that's my 1 cent worth.

t

Merry Christmas !

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 24 Dec 2010 5:00 am

Hi Tony, I sure hope you didn't take my reply as an augmentative reply to one of your posts!! You are one of my best pals here on the forum and I always enjoy reading your posts. I just wanted to make sure you knew where I was coming from. What I really was trying to say was we all have our own way of thinking as well as opinions of what we think of our favorite recording methods.

Sometimes when posting in plain text it's hard to set the mood in which we are posting from. This isn't the first time I've re-posted about one of my posts and that's just because I never want anyone to think I am trying to disagree with them in a negative manner and no doubt it won't be my last one

So please forgive my post if it seemed anything other than just talking about what we all see as our favorite recording medium

thanks

Bob

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 24 Dec 2010 7:15 am

Hey Bob, not at all, never crossed my mind..

Different views is what makes it all good !

Merry Christmas !

Tony

George Wixon · Post by **George Wixon** » 24 Dec 2010 11:32 am

Tony,
I've been using PT for about 3 years. I just upgraded to 8(Actually 8.0.1)and like it a lot.
I could always find my way around in it easily for editing but knew I was just scratching the surface of the program.
I picked up a book called "Protools 8 Ignite" and it's about the best 35 bucks I ever spent. There are 2 chapters just on editing and really opened up my eyes on different ways of doing things. It's an easy read and full of great info as well as a cd with all the chapters.
As always it seems that for every one way of doing something there may be 3 other ways to do the same thing that may be quicker than the way you chose to do it in the first place.
I've been stuck with my head in this book for the past 2 days now and am finding out more and more about the capabilities of what this program can do.
I would recommend this book for anyone that may need a little extra help in getting around in PT.
George

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 24 Dec 2010 12:28 pm

George, thanks for the tip, sounds like I have to make a trip to the "Amazon" now !

Merry Christmas

tony

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 24 Dec 2010 12:39 pm

Hey, Tony, absolutely, positively run and get a copy of "The Musician's Guide To ProTools" by John Keane. (REM producer, and plays fine steel as well, sometimes with Widespread Panic)
He lays the book out like you would USE it on sessions, including a disc with tracks you load to follow the recording, editing, and mixing process. Done with insight and a great deal of humor (musicians who hate each other so need different headphone mixes, prima donna vocalists, etc.)
It's fun and highly educational, no wading through flashy info, step-by-step through the process you will use recording bands or yourself, with sidetrips to the essentials of computer setup and file saving.

I really can't recommend this book enough to help get up to speed on PT.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 25 Dec 2010 2:32 am

ok, two trips to the "Amazon " !

thanks for the tips..

t