Any users of Apogee Duet/Apple Logic?

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 23 Nov 2008 9:21 pm

Let's widen this to anyone, anywhere, using Apogee Duet and Logic, love to get some user feedback, even if non-local:

Pretty soon I'd like to get more serious about doing home recordings of my steel. I'm a Mac only guy. I keep hearing great things about this hardware/software combo of the little Apogee Duet and Apple's Logic (Pro or Express).

I'd love to get together with someone in southern California who has this setup and get a first-hand demo.

I live in San Pedro, neighboring Torrance and Long Beach, but a bit of driving is not a problem, and my schedule is pretty wide open to work around yours. And lunch and beverages are on me!

Thanks!

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 26 Nov 2008 1:58 pm

John,
I'm waiting for my copy of Logic Pro to come to me as we speak ....The Apogee Duet is basically to channels of the Apogee Ensemble unit .....Not too shabby at all if you can get away with 2 channels of AD/DA ..... Not the top of the line as far as pre's and convertors go, but a very good mid priced unit that will sound better than most 2 channel unit's out there today .... Very simple , no fuss , no muss setup .... I'm not using it myself , but know quite a few folks running Mac's that are using it, and they all have good things to say about it ....I would give it 2 thumbs up after hearing some of the recordings done with it !!....Jim

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 26 Nov 2008 10:33 pm

Jim, let me know how Logic Pro works out for you. I'll probably start with Logic Express, I'm a complete newbie at this, and from what I've read, Express is almost the same identical program as Pro, but sans some other apps, utilities and plug-ins that I'd probably have no use for anyway...at least in the beginning.

I just want to record really great sounding steel to rhythm tracks, for some demos of my playing; and eventually I want to record steel tracks for others, by importing final or scratch tracks and then doing one or more takes on steel.

I won't need more than one channel, maybe forever, so the Duet should suffice, you agree?

Users say online that the AD/DA converters on anything Apogee really sound better than most of the other consumer grade stuff commonly used (M-Audio, etc.). What DAW are you using?

I'm open to anything knowledgeable you, or anyone, has to say!

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 27 Nov 2008 3:32 am

John,
Using recording tools are very similar to boats ....You start out with a small one, and soon realize that you wish you bought the bigger one ....Logic Express is a good program to learn on , and then grow to Logic Pro ....I started out quite a few years ago with a tiny computer, back when you had to mortgage your house to buy memory .... It's a whole new world out there, and a good time to produce your own music with today's tools ....I use Digital Performer and have for years , but I figure , if I show more support to Apple on the music end of things, that they will realize ( and have been ) how many of us use their computers for music ..How many folks have iPods ? .. I'm sure they're getting the message .....Logic 8 is more intuitive than past versions of Logic that a lot of folks have claimed not to be very " Logical" for lack of a better word .... Some folks still don't like it , while others praise it .... I will be learning Logic myself ... I think a lot of folks , myself included, tend to use a program that they have used all along ...There is a LOT to learn , and folks tend to stay with what they know as not to have to deal with a heavy learning curve with a new program ....

"I won't need more than one channel, maybe forever, so the Duet should suffice, you agree? "

I could not DISAGREE with you more !!.....Recording music , with additional tracks and channels is similar to eating Pistachio nuts ....How many times have you eaten just one Pistachio nut ? ..... Once you get your feel wet , and you see how much there is in a DAW program , and how easy it is to add drums , or to add percussion, or you hear bells or keyboards in your head for a particular tune that you're working on, or you have a friend clear across the country that plays sax, and you want him to cut a sax track on a tune you're working on ....They sky is the limit ..... Once you get bitten by the recording bug , you will completely understand what I mean ...

You will not do bad at all with the Apogee Duet .... As you stated , it's a lot better than a lot of other interfaces out there and it's simple to hook up ...I've been using products from a little company here in NY called Metric Halo ...They are not far from me and continue to develop their products and are hands on with their customers ....GREAT customer service as well as product ...Not cheap, but well worth the $$$.......

Good Luck with your endeavors and if there is anything I can help you with , fire away .....Sincerely, Jim

PS...Enjoy your Thanksgiving .....We all have so much to be thankful for ...

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 27 Nov 2008 10:59 am

Great perspective and advice, Jim, thanks!

Tommy Detamore has been advising me a bit and he just switched to Logic Pro and a Metric Halo DAW. At their website the info is so techy I can barely understand whether they're selling hardware or software! But now that 2 of you are recommending them, I'll have to research more.

Happy Thanksgiving to you, and all my wonderful Forum brethren!

John
aka Mr. Twang

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 27 Nov 2008 11:44 am

The Metric Halo forum is FULL of folks that will be more than glad to help you get started .... If you can get away with a 2 channel unit , by all means get the ULN-2 ....The pre's have more gain than the 2882 ..... VERY clean sounding unit but more than the cost of the Duet ....Jim

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 4 Dec 2008 6:27 pm

Updated report:

I chatted long and hard with 2 nice Apogee guys at West LA Music yesterday. One thing I really like about them is that they are an Apple partner, which is why their products interface so seamlessly with Apple Logic Pro (and Express!).

Another great thing is they're local, right up the street in Santa Monica.

For my budget, it looks like the Duet would suffice for a most of my needs. They bragged mightily on the high clean gain (70db) of their pre's and A/D converters. They said Apogee gear has a certain "character" in the sound, typically fuller highs and lows.

However for the same price, I'm attracted to the PreSonus FireStudio Project, which has more channels, MIDI, etc. I don't need all that now, but to have it ready for me is not a bad idea. Their specs look great on paper, but I have no real world experience with either, or even digital recording for that matter.

Any knowledgeable opinions? I like the PreSonus forums, too, you get very quick answers from guys at the company, and end users, too.

Chime in, Mr. Quackenbush, and others!

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 4 Dec 2008 7:13 pm

John,
I guess it boils down to what it is you really want ...".You get what you pay for" and I guess another way of looking at it would be do you want quantity, or quality ? .......Not that Presonus is bad gear by any stretch of the imagination .... The sound of the Apogee is that icing on the cake compared to the Presonus gear ....If you want more bells and whistles, with pretty good sound, than the Presonus is what you should take a look at... If you want top of the line sound , with less bells and whistles , and seemless integration , then Apogee is the way to go ....Then you could go great sound, AND bells and whistles, but you are going to be paying for it ....Your next jump would be either the Apogee Ensemble, or you could jump to the Metric Halo gear ....or even Lynx Aurora .....We're talking much more money here , but you get the idea .... Do some homework from the various forums and see how the FireStudio sounds, and how well it integrates with other gear .....Sometimes integration plays a MUCH bigger role than anything else ...It's nice when your gear plays well with others .....Good Luck, and I'll do some research too !!.....Sincerely, Jim

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 5 Dec 2008 9:58 am

Good thoughts, Jim...I'm just kind of burned out on all the massive research it's already taken just to get the sort-of hang of any of this new world!

So you're saying the Apogee sound is better enough than PreSonus to be noticeable? From what I read online, even PreSonus is better than MBox and M-Audio stuff, and lots of folks are giving thumbs up to Logic vs ProTools.

I'm enjoying this dialogue, thanks, bro!

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 5 Dec 2008 10:26 am

John,
I'm sure that you'll agree that we all have different ears .....You would really have to listen for yourself to see what constitutes good sound from ANY system ...The Presonus gear may for all intents and purposes be fine for you ....One thing to understand is that sometimes you may be showcasing your music, and it will be turned up ....Cheaper gear will show problems when the volume is turned up ...I'm not saying that this will happen with the Presonus gear ... There are also good reasons why, for lower cost gear, that Apogee has a good following with the Duet ....Again, the Duet is mearly 2 channels of the Ensemble system that sells for considerably more because it's more channels etc .... You really can't do badly with either system .... One thing to remember is " YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" .....I used MOTU gear for the longest time ....They have boxes out there that are Swiss Army boxes of studio gear .... They sound OK , but not great, but they do so many things ....I have found that less is more ....Technology a lot of times gets in the way of creativity ..... When you have too many things going on, and you have so much to remember, it will surely affect your creative side because you get involved with just getting your gear to record .... KISS ( Keep it simple stupid ) .....My new motto !!!... Concentrate more on your music than the technology ....Again, sometimes it's not the gear that sounds better, but the gear that makes life easier for you to accomplish your goal , which is making good music, and being able to record it without so much fuss .... I can't tell you how many times I have started out with what I though were GREAT tunes , and ended up with little or no interest in them when having gear problems ....I spent more time being able to record them and edit them properly , and running into so many problems , that I just canned the project ......I'm not trying to cloud things up for you, I only speak of what I have gone thru in the past ... I've heard music that was recorded using a minimum of 80 -90 tracks, and then I have also heard music that was done using 16 or so tracks , and if done properly, less is more ......Jim

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 5 Dec 2008 1:09 pm

The Apogee Duet and Ensemble don't have midi in/out/thru. If down the road I wanted to use a midi keyboard to create, or edit, midi files to create tracks, does lack of midi make Apogee a not ideal choice? Can I hook that keyboard up directly to the Mac and do that? Macs don't have MIDI connections, unless via USB or Firewire, to my knowledge.

I don't understand midi either, so any enlightenment helps. This need would be somewhere down the road, after I get the hang of simple, clean recording.

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 5 Dec 2008 1:19 pm

John,

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Uno.html

I just did some quick research on the Firestudio .....You need to do the same ....Google " Presonus Firestudio drivers" ....Check to make sure they got this straightened out .....There were a lot of problems early on ....Jim

Tonu Timm · Post by **Tonu Timm** » 5 Dec 2008 2:37 pm

I got iMac with Logic Pro and Apogee Duet. After throwing M-Audio Fast Track Pro to recicle bin and purchasing Duet, everything works fine. I'm not too smart IT man, but able to make nice home recordings with that equipment. I got SwisSonic midi cable between Mac and midi-piano, Logic is not 'too logic' for beginner as me, but has great sounds. Duet works as really good pre-amp, so no need to buy them separately (IMO). I record tracks with this stuff at home and then take it to studio, no negative reactions yet.

Tim Walker · Post by **Tim Walker** » 6 Dec 2008 1:15 pm

Hey John,

I hope all is well. I wish I'd seen this thread sooner.
Logic/Duet is a great combination - it seems very stable and it sounds GOOD.
I have an mbox that I use when have to use Pro Tools for work and by comparison it sucks (very boxy sounding pre's, poor monitoring to compensate for latency etc.)
You are welcome to check out my set up. For midi you can plug a midi controller into the USB port of your mac - it works fine.
For editing I still prefer the Pro Tools software but for recording music Logic is great. You get a whole bunch of loops that at present you don't get with PT's - though that is soon to change with Pro Tools 8.
The Logic Express that came out last year is essentially the same as the Logic you get in the Logic Studio. It is not a light version in the sense that Pro Tools LE is. There are only a couple of differences if I remember rightly - there is no support for TDM plugins and i think you don't get one of the new reverb or delay plugins. You still get plenty of useful stuff and unless you are going to use the rest of the software suite : soundtrack pro etc. I would save your money. I have Logic Studio but still only use Logic.
Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Tim

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 6 Dec 2008 1:25 pm

Thanks, Jim, Tonu and Tim, I'm learning a lot in dribs and drabs.

Tim, I'll phone you, thanks, I would love to see and HEAR your setup. I know you went with Metric Halo for more inputs, but since you owned the duet briefly, you can speak to their sound quality.

What I need is to understand, and actually draw a diagram of (I'm a designer, my mind just works better with visuals), how to set up all the gear, how to use it, all that.

Anyone recommend a great basic book for DAW, how to use plug-ins, all the basics I so lack? Sorry to keep mooching off you experts!

Tim Walker · Post by **Tim Walker** » 6 Dec 2008 1:38 pm

Hey John,
I still have a Duet and never ended up going for the metric halo.
I'll try to explain the set up - it's very simple.
The Duet plugs in to the Firewire 400 port on your mac. It has a breakout cable which has 2 XLR inputs (for mics) 2 1/4" inputs (you can can take a cord from your volume pedal into one of these).
There are also 2 outputs that you will connect to your monitors.
The Duet has a headphone out onboard.
Cheers,
Tim

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 8 Dec 2008 3:25 pm

Tim,
What Mac are you using ? ....Thanks, Jim

Tim Walker · Post by **Tim Walker** » 8 Dec 2008 6:03 pm

just a macbook intel core duo. 2.0ghz with 1GB Ram.
It works good though they say 2GB ram is better for logic. it's a cheap upgrade i just haven't had the need to do it yet as i'm not using a lot of tracks.
cheers, tim

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 8 Dec 2008 7:17 pm

What made you pick the Duet over the Metric Halo ? .....I have had M.H. products since the 2882 first came out a few years ago, and now have a ULN-2 .....They really stand behind their products and the MH forum is full of some real pro's in the business as well as regular folks like myself ....I do really like the simplicity of the Duet however .....The $500 price tag doesn't hurt much either .....Thanks, Jim

Tim Walker · Post by **Tim Walker** » 8 Dec 2008 8:11 pm

hi jim, it came down to a few things but mainly price. i did read on some forums that the pre's and converters were better on the apogee also. it doesn't have the flexibility of the uln2 for sure but at the moment it's all i need/can afford.
ideally i would have an ensemble.
cheers, tim

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 9 Dec 2008 4:56 am

Tim,
I've heard both and went with the Metric Halo for versitility and for tone ..It was not like night and day with the sound of the units but I did give the edge to the MH ....The Apogee had more low end but almost sounded hyped ....I would rather add low end if I need it ....The cost difference was quite a bit though .....

Jim

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 9 Dec 2008 4:57 am

Tonu,
Do you have an external hard drive hooked up to your iMac or do you just use the internal unit ? ....Thanks, Jim

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 10 Dec 2008 4:43 pm

Hey Tim: I was discussing all this with student who is researching a ProTools HD system for his home use. Not what I want. But he said to make sure and get good mic pre's, even with Duet. Aren't the ones it has great already? Would I need a different brand of external mic pre (that's short for preamp, right?)?

I'll be phoning, hope I can visit you very soon to clear up the mud.

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 10 Dec 2008 4:51 pm

John,
The Pre's ( short for preamp ) are fine on the Duet and so are the AD/DA ( Analog to Digital, and Digital to Analog )convertors.....

As far as clearing up the mud, you will soon be there .....Then get ready to jump into the FIRE !!!....What was that the Carpenters sang about ? ....We've only just begun !!!!....

....Jim

John McClung · Post by **John McClung** » 29 Dec 2008 12:08 pm

Just an update: Tim Walker very kindly spent his afternoon yesterday walking me through the whole recording process using his MacBook/Apogee Duet/Logic Pro/KRK Vxt4 speakers.

It's not as hard as I was fearing, though I'm sure there are layers of complexity I can eventually grow into, especially plug ins. But now I have much more confidence to get a DAW like his and start learning in this new realm.

Anyone who's used Garage Band will find the environment very similar.

If anyone has any of that gear and software they're trying to get rid of, let me know!

Thanks a million, Tim!