How do YOU record your Steel ?

Jerry Pansier · Post by **Jerry Pansier** » 27 Jun 2008 11:47 am

I am interested in how YOU record YOUR steel.Amps,effects compression ect. Do you go direct, mic your amp or both I am sure there wil be many diffrent opinions on this matter.Should be interesting.Let hear it all,it may be helpfull to someone out there as well as myself.

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 27 Jun 2008 12:07 pm

Jerry, in the infancy of my recording "career" I have so far went direct...out of the line out in the back of the amp and into my audio interface.
I am careful with the reverb on the amp, as this can be added later. The same with other effects...I prefer to record the steel somewhat raw and add effects in the recording program.

I am curious about miking the amp. That's how it was done years ago and I think that's how the purists done it. But right now I think it might be a bad idea for me...for example, the pedals on my steel are too noisy.

What do you use?

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 27 Jun 2008 2:16 pm

I practice and record with the same preamp and efx processor that I use live. My recordings are for me. Practice sessions.

I go to my tube preamp> stereo efx processor >> 2 separate channels on the recorder/mixer.
I keep my efx "on" because I like that sound.
I have things set, at home, where I can push RECORD, without any setup time.
I practice and listen to tracks thru a mixer/recorder to a small pair of powered monitors and/or ear phones. (I live in a condo)

(darn, who was that playing??!!)

R2

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 27 Jun 2008 2:23 pm

I record with a Shure SM-57 in front of the amp. Pretty much, I point the mic right at the center of the cone and about 6" away from it but that will vary with the amp you are using, speakers and recorder. With the SM-57, it is not sensitive enough to pick up the hum or any pedal noise. I play loud anough to keep the signal to noise ratio high.

Greg

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 27 Jun 2008 3:11 pm

usually, direct thru an ART tube preamp. A bit of input compression to tame the peaks. Track is recorded dry, all EQ and effects are added later . Every now and then , like Greg, I will use a 57 and record playing thru a Fender Hot Rod Deville 2x12. I was recently invited to do a number of sessions for Muzak at an uptown studio and that is what we used, the Fender tone is bright and very clean. The main reason I record direct is because I practice and record in the early mornings and I am somewhat convinced my family does not want to hear any Steel Guitar, from ANYONE, at 7 am...

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 27 Jun 2008 5:27 pm

My condenser mic is so sensitive that it will pick up a car going by on the street (I have the curtains drawn)
So I guess this is where the SM 57 comes in handy eh..

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 28 Jun 2008 2:28 am

I go direct to the "board" when recording the steel. I usually record "dry" (no effects) or just a touch of reverb but nothing else (I can add whatever I want later). I've used an SM57 and I've used the XLR out on my Nashville 112 and I've used the "recording" out on a Rocktron Sidewinder preamp. I can't say any method was better than the other on recordings. The last CD I did for a singer, a couple were made using an SM57 on my Nashville 112 and the rest were made using the XLR out on the Nashville 112; I can't hear any difference on the final recordings.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 28 Jun 2008 5:46 am

Bent,

I didn't come out and say it but yes the condenser mic is pretty useless for recording pedal steel directly from an amp. I use a condenser for my accoustic guitar, mandolin and nylon string guitar. I record the bass direct to console. I mic the steel and lead guitars with either an SM-57 or and e309. On the other hand the condenser works for the acoustic guitar in a way the SM-57 will not, at least not without a powerful preamp.

Greg

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 28 Jun 2008 6:25 am

Actually, I'll go on record by saying a condenser mic is pretty useless in a HOME environment without an enclosed soundproofed room.

I always love the sound of a great vocal performance with the sound of a toilet flushing in the background , Cats crying to come in, the garage door opening , the sound of someone knocking on the front door...

Ambiance for sure !

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 28 Jun 2008 6:49 am

Greg Cutshaw wrote:Bent,

I didn't come out and say it but yes the condenser mic is pretty useless for recoding pedal steel directly
Greg

Thanks for the tips, Greg.

About your earlier post...Why do you prefer micing instead of direct? Room ambiance?

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 28 Jun 2008 6:51 am

Tony Prior wrote: I always love the sound of a great vocal performance with the sound of a toilet flushing in the background , Cats crying to come in, the garage door opening , the sound of someone knocking on the front door...

Ambiance for sure !

Or like they did it on the Bradley Barn Sessions with Geo Jones and Geo Strait..they stuck a mic out the door so we could hear the crickets singing!

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 28 Jun 2008 7:48 am

Bent,

The SM-57 does not pick up much of the room ambiance. In a small room like I record in, you can hear a slight echo as the sound bounces off the near wall.

The sound you hear out of your amp includes the sound of the speaker as it interacts with the amplifier and cabinet affecting the tone, phasing and dynamics. IF you like this sound and want to get it on "tape, you need to mic your amp. If you go direct, you are eliminating the speaker, the amp cabinet and all the interactions thereof.

Of course recording direct yields a different sound. That sound can be "better" or "worse" than using a mic. It's a great option and just another way to change the recorded sound of a steel.

Greg

Tommy Detamore · Post by **Tommy Detamore** » 28 Jun 2008 8:24 am

I didn't come out and say it but yes the condenser mic is pretty useless for recording pedal steel directly from an amp.

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 28 Jun 2008 9:35 am

Straight from the XLR out of my NV 112:

http://www.cosmiccowboysmusic.com/media.html

JP

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 28 Jun 2008 9:48 am

We should not lose sight of the fact that years ago there wasn't much options other than using a mike with an amp. Amps (almost all amps) didn't have a "line out", "XLR out", preamp out, etc (e.g. Fender Twin Reverb amps) so they had to mike whatever amp the player was using or whatever studio amp they wanted them to use.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 28 Jun 2008 10:29 am

Oops!

Well useless for me! I can't keep the pedal noise out of the recording unless I play really loud and crank the condenser really low.

Did I mention that I really like the SM-57?

Jim, that's a great sound you're getting!

Well, I've been wrong about a lot of things but I can learn. Did Lloyd really record with that mic or was it just placed there for the album cover picture?

Greg

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 28 Jun 2008 1:43 pm

Well since I opened my big mouth, and there's no "foot in open mouth" smiley, I figured I had to try my Sennheiser condenser mic again. It's a Sennheiser MXL-992 and I had to activate the -10db pad on the mic and cut my preamp levels quite a bit from the SM-57 settings.

This is a snippet from "She Called Me Baby" that I'm working on for a tab project. The mic is placed about 8" in front of a Fender Steel King speaker and about 2" below the cone. With the levels cut back, you can't even hear the A/C roaring 12 feet away as long as you keep the steel level coming out of the amp pretty high.

So I guess I would be happy with either mic.

There are two parts of the song (unfinished) mixed into the streaming file below.

She Called Me Baby Sample

Greg

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 28 Jun 2008 4:12 pm

Tommy Detamore wrote:
I didn't come out and say it but yes the condenser mic is pretty useless for recording pedal steel directly from an amp.

Good enuff for Lloyd, it's good enuff for me...

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 28 Jun 2008 4:18 pm

Greg Cutshaw wrote: This is a snippet from "She Called Me Baby" that I'm working on for a tab project.

Greg

That is oh so clear and nice Greg.

Jim Peters, the direct sounds great also. Different, but still great.

When I can't decide which sound I like the best (Greg or Jim)that can only mean that they are both great sounds. Looks like it comes down to preference for a specific sound that you are looking for.
Thanks all...

Tommy Detamore · Post by **Tommy Detamore** » 28 Jun 2008 7:10 pm

Did Lloyd really record with that mic or was it just placed there for the album cover picture?

You know Greg, for a long time I wondered about that, and whether or not this was a photo of an actual "setup" in the studio, or just a staged thing. It seemed strange to me that Lloyd would set up so close to the amp, and with it totally in his left ear like that. Years later I went to a Moe Bandy session with Weldon Myrick playing steel, and he had his amp set up in a similar fashion, but to his immediate right. So I concluded that might have been a popular way of doing things in Nashville for a while. I would be curious to hear from someone "in the know" on this. With the amp that close, even at a very low volume, it would seem like it would overtake the headphone sound to some extent. Maybe that was part of the point, to allow the player to hear part of his steel more or less acoustically?

That kind of setup wouldn't work for me. I holler out way to much salty language whenever I make a boo-boo

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 28 Jun 2008 7:57 pm

Tommy Detamore wrote:... set up so close to the amp, and with it totally in his left ear like that. ... Maybe that was part of the point, to allow the player to hear part of his steel more or less acoustically?

That has always been the way I like it (right side seems better tho) when playing with a group, especially a large group. Yes, that way I can hear it, and the other guys don't have to complain about that whiny sound.

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 29 Jun 2008 6:34 am

Greg C, that is a great sound you've gotten! JP

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 29 Jun 2008 8:31 am

Tommy, what sort of amp volume do you use in the studio? Say compared to when you are sitting at home playing around.

I understood that the amp would be turned down from the 'norm' once you're in a studio situation. I am quite sure Jeff Newman told us this: volume and reverb down from usual settings.

If this is the case then maybe Lloyd was able to have his amp that close?

Tommy Detamore · Post by **Tommy Detamore** » 29 Jun 2008 12:23 pm

This is what I've been doing lately:

The amp is a '68 twin with a 15" JBL D 130. The volume is set on "3". Any lower than that and it just doesn't sound right. And it's really just about right for the "sitting-around-playing-level" as well. Not all that loud unless you go full on the volume pedal, which I never do.

The mike is an Audio Technica 4047. I use it if it's not already set up for something else. I use whatever is handy a lot of times. I'm not real hung up on any one mike really. No matter what I use it still sounds like me

All coming from a guy who used a Pod XT for a long time. (Still do sometimes!)

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 29 Jun 2008 12:49 pm

I think we all know the point about the

"condenser mic" is ...

"IN AN ENCLOSED STUDIO SOUNDROOM " as is the case with the photo of Loyd, not in a family room practice area or back hall area of our homes where we can hear the School Bus coming up the street. Point is, if you can hear it, so will the condenser mic.

please be gentle