Help with changes to Killer Joe

Mike Bagwell · Post by **Mike Bagwell** » 14 Jan 2001 10:30 am

I need help with the changes for this tune. It was recorded by Buddy and Danny Gatton. And Buddy and Lenny Breau. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Mike[This message was edited by Mike Bagwell on 14 January 2001 at 02:53 PM.]

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 14 Jan 2001 12:43 pm

hehe....
I can't believe I'm finally getting the chance to help Mike Bagwell, who has been very kind to me (and other newbies) in the past

Mike, as soon as I'm done work today, you'll have it.
-John

Mike Bagwell · Post by **Mike Bagwell** » 14 Jan 2001 2:52 pm

John,

Thank you, I have great deal of respect for your knowledge of music, and your willingness to share it.

Mike

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 14 Jan 2001 9:49 pm

Well, thanks Mike... I'm mostly smoke, but I do own a few good books

Ok this is a chart from a very reliable fake book I have, as Golson wrote it. I notice this tune seems to have some long vamp-like (C-Bb)stuff going on that may or may not be part of the Emmons/Gatton version-not sure. I have a feeling it's the bridge you really want anyway

so, here it is, complete, from the book:

|C13 |Bb13 |C13 |Bb13|
|C13 |Bb13 |C13 |Bb13|
|C13 |Bb13 |C13 |Bb13|
|C13 |Bb13 |C13 |Bb13|

|Em7b5 |A7b9 |Eb-7 |Ab13 Ab7|
|A9 A7b9|Ab7b9|E-7 |A13b9 |

|C13 |Bb13 |C13 |Bb13 |
|C13 |Bb13 |C13 |Bb13 |
|C13 |Bb13 |C13 |Bb13 |
|C13 |Bb13 |C7#9 | |

I've copied those chords, as annoyingly complex as they are, exactly.
I remember fooling with this bridge on the steel once, and found that all those little subleties on the bridge chords did make a difference when playing the head. I'm sure as long as you stayed in the same tonality when you were soloing, you would take (simpler) liberties.
-John [This message was edited by John Steele on 14 January 2001 at 09:52 PM.]

Mike Bagwell · Post by **Mike Bagwell** » 15 Jan 2001 6:01 pm

John

You made my day. The voicings were just too close for my feeble ears.

Thank you
mike

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 15 Jan 2001 7:05 pm

folks,

The last time I went ISGC was in '98, which I do believe is the last year that Emmons played there. Anyhoo, on the Sunday show he played Killer Joe. And it was killer!

John, you gave us the chords, surely you must know how to play it(hint, hint)?

cheerio,
Drew

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<A HREF="http://www.newslinkassociates.com
" TARGET=_blank>http://www.newslinkassociates.com
</A>

Mike Bagwell · Post by **Mike Bagwell** » 15 Jan 2001 9:50 pm

Drew,
Try this out, I couldn't figure out how to put in measures so you'll
have to listen to the recording for the phrasing. Of course this is
just the bridge, but the 1 to b7 octave part is pretty simple

Mike

<pre>

1___________7__________________________________________________________
2_______________6____6_____8____9______8+1/2__11_______________________
3_7_____7_______6____6__________9______8______11+1/2____16______16_____
4_7_____7_______6____6__________9+1/2__8+1/2__11+1/2____16+1/2__16_____
5_7_____7-1/2___6____6-1/2______9______8______11________16______16-1/2_
6_7-1/2_7-1/2___________________________________________16-1/2__16-1/2_
7_7_____7______________________________________________________________
8______________________________________________________________________
9______________________________________________________________________
10_____________________________________________________________________

</pre>

[This message was edited by Mike Bagwell on 15 January 2001 at 10:30 PM.]

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 16 Jan 2001 7:13 am

That 11th fret half-pedal is a real killer when I try to play it.I had to move it up to 12 and lower strings 2 and 5.Great work as always Mike. bb

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 16 Jan 2001 7:20 am

Silly me.You are raising the 4th string with your knee and half-pedaling the 3rd string.Now that I can do. On 2nd thought you have the 3rd string half tone raise on a left knee.I have both of those changes split on 2 right knees left.Try using those 2 together. The knee pedal and half pedal works pretty good for those of you with just the standard C6th changes.Of course there are still several others ways to do this.[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 16 January 2001 at 10:26 AM.]

Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 16 Jan 2001 11:58 am

I think it's the use of a C to C# pedal/knee and not half pedaling. Half pedaling on pedal 7 would raise both the 3rd and 4th strings.
Nice job, Mike! (and John!)
It's Killer...Joe...

------------------
My best,
Ernie

The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 16 Jan 2001 1:47 pm

True Ernie,but,if you use the knee that raises the 4th string,while half pedaling the 3rd string it works pretty good.It's a poor mans way at least.bb

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 16 Jan 2001 5:11 pm

Well, I must be even poorer than both you guys.. 'cause I haven't got the 3rd string raise, and I can't half-pedal worth a darn...
so I'm gonna play the 11th fret Ab chord here, since the next one is at fret 16:

1--------
2--------
3--15----
4--15----
5--15(5--
6--15(6--
7--------

Mike, fantastic job ! I love the change from fret 9 to 8. I never would have figured that out.
-John
Edit:
Just in case you guys want to play Mike's tab with a group; just my opinion only, but this set of changes for the bridge would match nicely and not freak out the band:

|Em7b5 |A7b9 |Eb-7 |Ab9 |
|A7 |Ab7b9|E-7 |A7b9|

The sixth bar (Ab7b9), Mike briefly states a Absus (eighth fret) before the Ab7b9, but I wouldn't bother to notate that on a chart.
-John out [This message was edited by John Steele on 16 January 2001 at 07:45 PM.]

Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 16 Jan 2001 11:16 pm

I think it would make sense to use that position and pedal combination. Beings your going to the 16th fret anyway.
Thanks Mike and John!

------------------
My best,
Ernie

The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com

Mike Bagwell · Post by **Mike Bagwell** » 17 Jan 2001 6:06 am

Hey Bobby, I thought you never came to this part of town.

John,
I agree with you. Im playing that Ab chord at the 15 frett now too, it just sounds more in tune on my guitar.
Thanks

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 17 Jan 2001 8:27 am

Only to visit you my friend.No one like's my ideas anyhow.

John's way is to easy. It needs to hurt a little.

No really I like it voiced at the 11 fret, 12 fret for me,lowering 2 and 5 a half-step.
BTW I'll bet Buddy Rocket plays it with the knee-pedal half-pedal.He only has 5&2 on his PP C6th.And he's in to pain.Have you seen the way he sweats? What a showman though.----- I'm out'a here bb[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 17 January 2001 at 08:47 AM.]

Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 22 Jan 2001 1:22 am

Putting this tab up was a "just in the nick of time" things. I got a near-mint copy of "Minors Aloud" in the mail last week. Sweet!!!
You guys are great!

------------------
My best,
Ernie

The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 22 Jan 2001 5:12 pm

[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 23 September 2002 at 08:38 PM.]

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 23 Sep 2002 3:49 pm

I decided to bump this old thread up again. It seemed timely, as it's inclusion in Buddy's St. Louis set as well as the Emmons/Rugg Bell Cove video has brought it to people attention again.... Also because Mike did an excellent job in lifting Buddy's bridge. Thanks again Mike.
-John

Frank Estes · Post by **Frank Estes** » 24 Sep 2002 6:46 am

Thanks for bringing this up. I somehow missed it the first time around. Jernigan's 7 Jazz Solos course includes an adlib solo for "Killer Joe" tabbed out and includes an audio cassette. Now I can apply Buddy's bridge and Jernigan's adlib ideas and perhaps come up with a reasonable performance.

Mike Bagwell is one of my favorite players and I am happy to have him as a friend and from what I have heard, I am anxious to hear Mr. Boggs play some time.